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Curious about 1973 Topps distribution
My posts in another thread on distribution of 1973 Topps has sparked me to ask others who collected cards that year what they remember about obtaining them. I no longer actively collect much post-war, so I was surprised to see how there seems to be incomplete and/or inaccurate information about this set, which seems to me to have been issued not that long ago–at least not so long that there should be much mystery.
As I mentioned elsewhere, the cards were issued in one 660 card series in southern Minnesota in 1973. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=184104 At least one other board member recalls similar distribution in the Boston area. Please chime in with your recollections. The so-called high numbers were clearly printed in the winter of 1972, as evidenced by the lack of player-team changes that should have been noted and made. In addition to those I mentioned in the other thread, I have since found at least two more. Hall of Famer Orlando Cepeda was traded to the Red Sox by Oakland on January 18, 1973, yet his high #545 shows him in an A’s uniform and captioned with Oakland. Similarly, lesser-known pitcher Rickey Clark went from California to Philadelphia on January 29, 1973, yet he is shown in high number 636 still on the Angels. Contrast this to 1972, where a trade involving Bob Burda to Boston in late March was caught so that his high number card depicts and captions him with his new team and Ron Hansen, who never played for the Royals until being signed April 2, 1972, is nonetheless shown wearing full Royals gear in the high-numbered series (See also the McLain and Carlton traded cards). Clearly the presses stopped early in 1973 (perhaps before New Years), giving Topps the opportunity and ability to distribute all the cards at once. This also may have allowed them to devote time in the Spring for developing their various test issues from that year. An all-at-once distribution makes sense for other reasons too. First, Topps released its complete football card set all at once for the first time in 1973, so it clearly had the idea and the ability to do so that year. If football why not baseball? Moreover, the FB card set was Topps’ largest by double or so, meaning they would have needed extra time to print the cards—which takes us back to the printing starting early because the baseball presses had fully run. Finally, I now see from the SCD catalogue that our neighbors up North issued the nearly identical (except for text) 1973 OPC baseball set of 660 cards all at once, so again the idea and ability were in place by at least the Spring. All of this confirms what some of us experienced first-hand– that the 1973 Topps baseball set was distributed all at once in certain parts of the country. Despite this, some guides and resources seem confused and uncertain when describing this set. For one thing, Ron Erbe’s book from 1981 claims the cards were released in two series, one with card numbers 1-528 and then a second with high numbers 529-660. Erbe was writing from Iowa–who knows, maybe there was some different distribution there, although that seems lacking in evidence. The SCD guide claims that the blue team card checklists are “generally accepted” as having been inserted in the high-numbered series, as well as being available by mail order. Generally accepted? It’s only been 40 years and there were millions of these cards produced, yet no one can state authoritatively whether these checklists were or were not in the high-series packs? By the way, I have never owned a blue team checklist, and yet assembled nearly three full sets of 1973's at the time. I submit that the only way for us “all 660 in one series” collectors to acquire these was by mail. For those of you here who collected by series in 1973, were the blue checklists in the high-series wax packs? Cellos? Some online sources suggest that the “all 660 in one series” wrappers that are sometimes seen were issued only when the high numbers were distributed. I am skeptical, and instead believe that these sources simply haven’t accounted for the fact that some parts of the country had the whole set available all along, and are struggling for an explanation. I suppose they could have been issued in this manner also, but I would have been steamed as a kid if I waited all summer for the last series and then had to rip packs that were stuffed with retread cards from prior series I’d already put together, getting what, possibly 2 out of 10 high-series cards? Not a great marketing strategy for Topps. I suppose there could have been some sort of Christmas card packs assembled a la some sets from a little earlier in that era, but I have not heard anyone make claim to having seen such a promotion. Anyway, those are my musings for now. Hopefully Mr. Lemke, Mr. Hornish and those others here who remember the 1973 cards can add to this discussion. |
As a teenager living in NYC back in 1973, I used to buy rack pack boxes from a toy wholesaler on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. I recall that one of the three rack pack panes would feature cards from the next series. So 1/3 of the cards in a Series Four rack pack box would be from Series 5. I just checked a May 1973 The Trader Speaks issue which had an ad from a NY dealer selling 1973 sets for $6.99 plus 95c postage, which covered the mailing for individual series as they got released!
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Thanks Howie. I completely forgot about rack packs. Seems there are many on ebay right now in the Christmas/Holiday header category, so there is that. As for those, I believe it was established that those were third-party issued and not directly from Topps, but it's been a long time since I saw a discussion on those, so I could be wrong.
There are also rack packs as you described on Ebay right now--thanks for the heads up. One of them also appears to have all low numbers in all three panes, so it seems that some may have been limited to each series. I do not recall buying any racks in 1973, or any before 1975 for that matter. In my town the store that sold wax did not sell racks, and conversely, I'm pretty sure the stores that sold racks (I can think of three, including Woolworths) did not sell wax. Man this stuff brings back great memories! Thanks again. |
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I am convinced, and this is only based on what I personally saw, that these blue checklists were issued only in the five series packs which included all 660cards. Nearly 20 years ago, I found a nice bunch at Orlando Sports Cards for $1 each and the owner told me he got them all the time from locals. Since those Florida packs were all inclusive. I always believed that with the cards I saw there and in Ohio (another place where all the series were distributed at the same time) they were included in the five series packs.
The other reason I believe that is they were almost impossible in the New York Metropolitan area and we almost never saw those cards in any of the 1973 collections we bought and I bought tons of 1973's over the years. Just my opinion Rich |
I love these threads that take me back to my childhood of busting packs. I could be wrong, but in my little town in north central PA, I believe the 1973's were still done in series. I got very few high numbers.
The grocery store sold wax all the time, and once in a great while would have rack packs. However, for cello, I had to wait until my parents went to the town 15 miles away to grab those. I would spend the whole time in that store searching the cellos for Pirates on the top or bottom. And that store sold only cellos. Strange the things you remember ! |
For a long time I believed that 1973 was the first Topps set issued in one series. I was nine in 1973 and it was the second set that I collected. I lived in the Cleveland area and I remember 1973 being issued all at once and the blue checklist cards being available all summer. I also remember Topps commercials from that year touting the end of series distribution.
I remember older kids in the neighborhood saying that collecting in 1973 was a lot easier then in years past. I know in 1972, at least, that the high numbers reached our neighborhood because I remember getting some of the traded cards. |
1973
I stopped piecing together my sets by packs and singles in 1971 and after that just bought sets, so no expertise on the underlying question. It has always been my impression that Topps did "issue" the cards in series, at least in most places. But that would not mean Topps did not issue them all at once in certain locals, since I think Todd is right that the set may have all been produced at one time. Since Topps clearly went to full distribution in 1974, maybe they were testing the different distribution method in some areas
As Todd mentioned Topps often tested and experimented with new ideas on a regional or geographic basis. In 1973, in addition to its base set Topps tried out Candy Lids, Comics, Pin Ups, the Team Checklists and the 53 Reprints ( although the latter may have just been an item created for a function or Banquet). http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1393868246 http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1393954516 http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1393954574 |
1973
And see what is said about the Team Checklists and the 600 packs in here
http://www.1973baseballcards.com/?p=36 |
Given the wide (yet limited) range of places with "All 660" packs described in this thread, it seems possible to me that Topps was testing how to do a full distribution through each of the major hubs they had at the time (three plus NY I believe) while at the same time issuing the cards in series elsewhere. Kind of like priming the pump of the jobbers as there would seemingly have to be a lot more cases of cards going to each one all at once in the "All 660" distribution. They were compressing four months of distribution into one big wave essentially, which was major change for all parties.
Can't recall if the 73's came out earlier than normal, which was usually around March 1 but I vaguely remember them being issued in series but also having a couple of Blue checklists. When I started collecting again in '81 after laying off in '76, the Blue checklists were familiar to me. I was buying packs (mostly racks but some packs from the ice cream man) on Long Island in '73 as a kid but the Blue checklists could have come from a year end dumping of cards at Newberry's or Woolworth's by Topps and I also spent summers in Massachusetts then so who knows? A team checklist in just the "All 660" packs makes some sense though as Topps would usually try to churn each upcoming series by lagging earlier series compared to the regular checklists by 22 cards or so. But if you had all 660 cards at once, perhaos they changed tactics to let the kids know all the cards issued from their favorite team to keep them hunting. |
Top 3 favorite Topps sets- 1952, 1956, and 1972
Least favorite- 1957, 1967, 1968 |
1973
Given the topic of this thread Frank, you could at least told us what you think about the 1973 set :)
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I don't recall seeing any blue team checklists at all when I was actually piecing the set together as a kid back in N. Calif in 1973...and I bought tons of packs. I do specifically recall buying a mixed series rack pack at a toy store in Sunnyvale, CA back then. It contained a mixture of Semi High and High Number cards.
Ricky Y |
1973
I was fourteen years old in 1973 and the last year as a teenager I bought packs and I bought alot of them.
In my part of North Carolina 1973's were issued in series and we had all series. The high numbers were not hard to get. We had no mixed series packs. I never saw any blue checklists and didn't know they existed until the 1980's. |
I hope this isn't overkill, but I dug up a March 1973 issue of The Ballcard Collector, featuring this interview with legendary Topps official Bill Haber concerning 1973 Topps.
In other BCC issues, a collector reported that Ohio had all cards issued at once. Also, a Canadian columnist noted that the entire OPC set was released in late May, in a similar fashion to many parts of the US. Later in the year, the Card Collectors Company was advertising the Blue Checklist set (@$2.95), along with many test set items. http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7349029f.jpg http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...ps64216120.jpg http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...psbd970570.jpg |
This article answers one very well know hobby question which is why there were no Rick Reichardt, Jay Johnstone or Rusty Staub cards during this timeframe.
Reading the article, Topps did a reasonably good job of not printing cards of players they felt would not be in the majors in 1973 such as Tony LaRussa but the biggest question is how could they feel Staub would not be oin a major league team in 1973. Although being hurt in 1972, he was obviously going to be in the Mets plans for 1973 so was there something more that that. Remember in 1970 and 71 Staub was not pr8inted till later in the season so I wonder, and that is all this is, whether there was a yearly cointract battle with Staub and Topps. Regards Rich |
1973
Great input Howie. Thanks for posting that
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Wow, thanks for the input guys; it's great to see others jogging their memories back to those department and grocery store days.
Howie, fantastic article with lots of nuggets. I never stopped to think that Topps would have had such a specific plan--exactly 20 action shots in each series? It's interesting to see that Haber claimed Topps was hoping to issue the entire 1973 series to "the majority of the country" and not just certain target areas. Since I could get the entire set in my little world (pre-Internet, satellite TV or even USA Today), I always thought everyone else could as well. That's one reason I started this thread-- to see what was more prevalent--distribution by series or all at once. I still can't tell with any certainty. If Topps did not in fact follow Haber's stated hope of giving the majority of the country the full set, then I wonder if Dave H.'s point came into play about how compressing four months of distribution into one big wave was such a major change for various parties that it could not be done as smoothly as planned. Finally, despite this detailed explanation of the '73 set that Haber offered, I see that he makes no mention of any team checklists. These would have been novel and in my view noteworthy at the time, and it makes me wonder if Topps came upon this idea after the set had been produced and Haber had penned his letter. Again, love the info and the stories, keep 'em coming. Any articles or ads from the time always appreciated. |
The blue team checklists are interesting. My cousin game me a box full of approx. 2,000 1973s that I know he opened in packs. Not a blue checklist to be found.
And he gave me almost as many 1974s. Probably included a stack of at least 100 red checklists. |
1973
I have no personal knowledge of whether they were actually pack inserts but they were available as a send away promotion offer on one of the two 600 pack wrapper variations
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I remember them as pack inserts.
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Checklists
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Great article Howie-what a fantastic read!
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Wow...that article from Howie was AWESOME. Just a year ago I put that set together, so I know it pretty intimately, and to read that kind of detail and thought was mind boggling. I constantly try to google articles on the sets I work on, that by far was the coolest.
Howie...if you ever feel like posting any more of those old articles, I'll ship you a case of beer! :D Thanks... I don't have any Blue Checklists...but for some reason I have 15-20 of the Red Checklists from 1974. I really have no idea how I got them, or anything about them. Do they have any value? Do the Blues? |
Team Checklists
I'm not sure why, but it is "stuck in my craw" that I heard at one point the team checklists came only in rack packs, much akin to the All Star glossies that came in rack packs later on. Granted I wasn't born until 1979, it would make sense to include the team checklists as an insert in rack packs ONLY containing all series. I have no evidence to back this, it's just a hunch that would also happen to make some sense.
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I remember reading somewhere that the blue checklists were offered as complete sheets on one of the Topps wrappers. The only ones I have ever had or seen where I grew up, were hand torn from a sheet. And I was happy to get them!
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For some reason I always remember the 1973 Series as being issued all at once. I grew up on Long Island and just seem to remember that the whole set was issued at the same time. On the Rusty Staub comment there is definitely more to the story as he was an all star at the time even though he missed most of 1972 with an injury.
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John, make it Yuengling or Shiner Bock and you have a deal! Just kidding. It was my pleasure to share the article. I suspect that I won't find similar in the archives but I promise to take a look. Most of the hobby publications back then focused on finding unreported additions to older sets rather than addressing the latest Topps set. As a side note, I believe I purchased my 1973 Blue checklist set directly from Mr. Haber at the first card show ever held in Manhattan. Unfortunately, I used bad teenage judgment in passing on the eight card 1972 Test Set of 1953 style cards that were on the same table along with 1969 Super singles!
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I forgot to say that 73 was the last set of my "youth" before I realized a few years later I wanted to continue colletcting.
In Saddle Brook NJ at Sam's Stationery, the packs were by series. I remember the 1st series packs and all the blank backs I pulled. My dad, who was a vest pocket stamp and coin dealer at one time, told me to go buy more so I did. I had like 30 blank backs at that time. |
Some Interesting Info...
I just bought a small hoard of NM 1973, 1974, 1975, and 1976 Topps baseball from a guy I work with. (Let me know if you need any singles)
I asked him specifically about the 1973 set and the team checklists. He said where he lived in Red Wing, MN, the 73 set was issued in series and only wax packs were available in the area. He has a bunch of the team checklists. He seems to recall the high series cards only being available for a very short time, then the 74's moved in. He also remembered how happy him and his brothers were that the cards were all being issued in one series in 1974 so they could collect all of the Minnesota Twins players at once. It seems to be that if the 1973 set was available in one series in some areas (which certainly appears to be the case) then those areas were very limited. |
Thanks again for all the feedback. Jakeinge, I wonder if the cards your co-worker bought back in the day came from jobbers on the Wisconsin side of the border (some may not know that Red Wing is right across the Mississippi River from Wisconsin). I was hoping some more of my native Minnesotans from back then, especially in the Twins Cities, would check in on this.
Anyway, it's still an open question for me. Again, I grew up thinking everyone got the 73s in one series, then the guides came out late 70's and still seem silent or at most unsure on the subject, and lead collectors to believe they came out only in series. Then I see people claiming that the Boston, Cleveland and Long Island areas, and at least parts of California and Florida received all cards at once, and I read Haber's letter that it was the plan to have the majority of the country receiving them this way; meanwhile, other parts of NYC and PA as well as NC and NoCal seem to recall series only. Seems a bit unsettled. I do need to amend and correct one thing I stated-- the cards may have been distributed all at once, but were not printed at the same time. Haber makes mention that Topps got "stuck" with certain guys on teams who had been traded. One such trade was KC sending Roger Nelson and Richie Scheinblum to the Reds for Hal McRae and Wayne Simpson. Haber noted that Topps was "stuck" with three of these, two of which are low numbers and Roger Nelson (#251). However, Wayne Simpson is shown on his new team and is card #428. So the first two or three series appear to have been printed before the others. Also, Simpson's facsimile auto is shown with the new team/Royals on the team checklist, so those would also have been printed subsequent to the first 2-3 series from the set. EDITED TO ADD: Simpson's card specifically mentions the trade: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTEyNFg4Mj...TPEew/$_57.JPG |
Wow, what a great thread bringing up the past and this set. I grew up in the East (San Francisco) Bay area and was actively collecting at the time. I recall getting the cards in wax packs, by series, towards the beginning of the season in Castro Valley, and then mixed series by the end of summer in Alameda. I do not ever recall ever seeing any of the blue checklists in any of the packs I purchased, but I do remember buying them as a set the following year at the Acalanes show (it could have been from an out of town vendor). Around '75, I remember buying a few cases of 3rd series wax from longtime collector Lou Chericoni (the series with Mays in it) and I busted open most of those at the time to make full series runs. I held onto about a half dozen boxes, until the last one sold off about 15 years ago. Wish I'd saved a few more of those boxes.....:)
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1973
More good input Mark
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First "set" I tried to complete as a 12 year old. Bloomingdale New Jersey. Opening day I rode my bike to "The Bloomingdale Sweet Shop". He had only cello. Maybe this was up to the store owner, but I did not see any wax that year. By September he had only Football, so now how to get high numbers. A few towns over was a Woolworth's. They had bins loaded with Baseball cello. I think in one pack I got 4 Fred Kendalls. Man did I have a lot of doubles after that day of purchase.
I am shedding no light. Just remenisceing. (sp) |
In small-town north central Wisconsin, 73 Topps were issued in series. I finally figured out that the last series was hardest to find (I restarted collecting in 1971) so when football cards came out, I went to the retailers in Antigo, Shawano, Clintonville, etc, and asked to talk to the manager. I'd make an offer of about 25% of retail for all they had left on the shelf. Little did I know that Mike Schmidt would become who he did. 13 of his rookie cards!
The blue checklists were never included in that area of the country. I ordered them from someone who advertised them in the Trader Speaks. And sure, as soon as I figured out that the last series was good to buy, in 74 they made the whole set available at one time. |
I never had a blue checklist card in NJ while buying from April to September. I only saw cello in NJ. Up to the store owner what to carry?
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Most stores bought from candy or tobacco wholesalers. So if the manager or owner of a store didn't want a particular series of sort of pack they didn't buy them. With many places today being chains those decisions are sometimes made at the main office.
When I ran a Cumberland farms (Late 83) there were no cards available to me at all. And the town I lived in only had one store that carried the last series of Star Wars cards. In 73 I'd just moved to Western Mass. I think we had all 660 together, but we moved in sept 1, so it could have just been the high number packs that included the other series. I don't recall the team checklists in 73. Of course our area was odd. The 75 minis were supposedly not issued anywhere near us, but we had them briefly. Steve B |
A quick question. Given that some areas got them is series, and others all at once. Does anyone have the release dates? Did the "all 660" areas get a later initial release than the "series" cities?
Also, some things to consider. What role did Topps going public in '72 play in the elimination of the series? I'd think it makes sense to eliminate the less profitable "later series", under that scenario.. Or at the very least, I think it might explain why they marketed differently, in different areas, to test the profitability of each.. And I remember something about the MLBPA offering exclusive rights to Fleer in '73. I know, that the player contracts doubled as a result, and Topps was now to pay a percentage to the players also. I'm thinking that had it's hand in shortening the set to 660, but did it also play a role in the end of the "series"? |
Here in NYC/Long Island the seventh series came out about July 10th. The next to last was around June 14th or so. I specificaly remember because of where I was at the time.
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Not sure where I got this scan from but some bozes of "All 660" in 1973 came with a box topper explaining the situation to "Mr. Retailer"
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps6835f8b3.jpg |
1973
More good input Dave
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Maybe everyone knows this or it's been written in this thread, but Topps definitely distributed in series (one through five) and an all-in-one series. OPC is all-in-one series only. I do not know where the all series boxes were released. They are relatively uncommon in my experience.
Note how the OPC box says "team checklist in every pack." If this carried over to the Topps version, it could explain the source of the blue checklists. I am attaching photos of my second series box (labeled as such), my fourth series box (black "hey kids") tab, and empty all-series box (pink "hey kids" tab and note the all series designation on the box side). I know first series had a tab that said "1st Series" because I lost out on an auction for one. Still sad about that. I am also attaching an empty OPC box and OPC pack. The Topps version of this pack is very similar looking, but I don't own one. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...pskick7mx3.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...psgmkjtfbr.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...pslduwsmy5.jpg http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...psj99mwkja.jpg |
You look like a collector of packs and boxes so you seem to be someone who would know. Were the checklists offered as sheets on one of the 1973 packs? The 1973 checklists I have were torn from a full sheet and I seem to remember reading that they were offered that way. Any info?
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Awesome thread
First, I want to thank those that have provided information, particularly the letter from Bill Haber. The scans are just plain old cardboard porn.
In King of Prussia, it was wax packs in series. I don't recall seeing cellos or racks. In August, though, we spent our usual two weeks in Ocean City. The penny candy store at the north end of the boardwalk had racks which had the one pocket of the last series. At least a third of what I bought that year was bought at the shore. In today's vernacular: "Best Summer Ev-ah!" Never even knew they had the blue checklists until years later. Someone mentioned that the mail away may have been an uncut sheet. Is that verified? I know that the Topps Collectors Club in 1976 sent an uncut sheet of the team checklists (the team photo cards) as part of the membership. It was folded and was printed on a brighter and thinner card stock than the issued cards. |
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1973 Topps distribution was mentioned in the November-December 1973 issue of Sports Fan. It looks like West Coast collectors took direct action after years of last series frustration and were looking forward to an all at once 1974 set.
http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2463e186.jpg http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...psbb39b9f8.jpg |
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