Measuring Slabbed Cards
 

How do you guys measure slabbed cards? It's a very difficult thing to do.

I know there are quite a few smart folks on this forum and many of you have a solid background in science. I wanted to ask you guys this: would it be possible to create some kind of device, such as a laser gun, which can get a hundred percent accurate measurement of a card inside a slab? I'm asking this because with the recent scandal, I feel like I have to start measuring all the graded cards I get and this is not an easy thing to do. I need some kind of device that can get an accurate measurement of the card, so I know it's not trimmed.

Thanks

Quite easy. Scan it, then use software to measure the card in pixels both horizontally and vertically. From there you can get the ratio of height to width and compare to the ratio of known good cards. Unless of course the card has been pressed first, then the card could still be trimmed and measure right. Or the card could have been oversized to begin with, at which point it could still measure right and be trimmed.

I've never been able to do the pixel measuring thing, but it can be very accurate. And most scanners let you choose the accuracy to a point.

If I was going to measure a graded card, I'd put a machinists rule behind the card, make sure I had a sightline parallel to one edge (Not so easy, I can do it, but I'm used to stuff like that) Move the rule so the edge is on one number, then look parallel to the opposite edge and that number will be the measurement. (Or , that number less the number from the other side, it's good practice to start at one and measure from there.

Let me preface this by saying that this is outside of my area (so to speak), but as far as I know...

Then you're only measuring the height and width of the card. In some cases they're pressed and trimmed so the area ends up back where it started, but the total volume and mass of the card have decreased. That's harder to detect. It's not that there aren't ways that such slight changes can be detected (If you want to get fancy you could put the card in a chamber with a known amount of an inert gas and then measure the pressure inside the chamber to calculate the volume of the card) but that the normal variance in sizes of vintage cards is large relative to the amount of matter discarded in a slight trim/press, so even if you knew the mass of the card to the microgram it wouldn't be definitive. Some cards might be suspiciously flat, but even the thickness of the cards will have some variance that's just due to differences in humidity, storage practices, etc. over the years.

I never measure a card....to me it’s eye and grain/edges...if you learn the grain/edges you will be able to tell discrepancies....that’s what bothers me so much with these wrongly slabbed and graded bad leaf 48 football cards....are these graders looking at grain?? Do the newer graders they have know what it is?

sounds like a very easy method

What do you mean by grain/edges? Are you aware that trimmers have found a way to give cards that natural-looking factory cut? This is the reason why so many of these cards got past the graders. Instead of measuring them, they just quickly looked at the edges and saw that everything looked OK. I think the only way to protect yourself is by measuring them.

I’m not aware of that....do you know for a fact that card trimmers have found a way to mimic a natural normal factory cut?? That’s news to me ???
I don’t think this is the reason why so many trimmed cards have been slabbed by graders I think it’s because the graders slabbing so many obvious short trimmed cards suck at their job.

Yes, it's a fact. There are hundreds of examples on the Blowout Forums. Take a look at this Doak Walker rookie, for example:

https://i.imgur.com/3ERFygZ.jpg

How about measuring pixels between the black border on most cards. That is a standard number. Then measure pixels on the entire card including boarder. The ratio times the black border dimensions gives you the overall card measurements.

Will work for the PSA 8 Wagner too.

You need both measurement and a look at edge quality.

I'm not sure how I'd measure thickness while a card is in the slab. Out of a slab, a $40 digital caliper will give very accurate measurements of thickness, to check for pressing and retrimming corners, you'd want to measure the thickness somewhere in the interior of the card, and at all four corners.
Then you also have to know how thick it should be.

I don't think I have ever measured a card through a holder? :o

I don’t see the point in measuring. There are plenty of oversized cards that are trimmed down to normal standards and plenty of undersized cards that are not altered. Even an oversized card could be recolored or pressed.

You’re just replacing one flawed evaluation with another.

What would you do with a card that measured small in the holder anyway - the seller has no responsibility to accept a return of a graded card.

I would instead consider the provenance/history of the item, who is selling it, and compare with other examples from the set.

Moser can also replicate a factory rough cut. Look in the Mantle thread for the 1952 Topps Look-N-See cards. Trimmed on the sides with "replaced" rough cuts.

Through my years of experience, measuring a card is not a good indication. Many of the t206 cards for example are cut over and under sized. Most of the time it is obvious that you will see a wave in the card. Most of the time I look at the edges of the card. If you see any kind of a slight wave on the edge, it is altered. I know some people line the card up over a page of a book and can check the edge that way.

No single way can tell you if trimming has been done. While it's not all that common, it's entirely possible for a factory cut to not be straight.

Like this. Totally crooked, also entirely factory.
http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...pictureid=7029