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-   -   1910 T218 Boxing card question (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=260170)

sportscomicfantasy 09-20-2018 10:16 PM

1910 T218 Boxing card question
 
2 Attachment(s)
Okay, guys, I don't know much about boxing card at all, but I have a large group of mostly T218 boxing cards like the ones pictured and a few T220.

The first question, on the back, just above Mecca around half have listed series #2 51 to 100, the others do not. Are these different printings? Is one more valuable than the other?

Next, I can see some of these on eBay to get an idea, but only for the same condition cards. I have a Beckett account for the vintage cards, but they all list N/A even for these older cards that seem to have plenty of sales looking at the past year. Is there somewhere else you recommend to get an idea of value for these?

And last, since I don't know a lot about boxing, besides Jack Johnson, who else is in these two sets that I should be looking out for?

Again, thanks in advance for your help and guidance!

sthoemke 09-21-2018 03:05 PM

Ask a simple question, get a not so simple answer...

Hope this older thread helps:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=111405

herbc 09-21-2018 03:19 PM

I would also suggest....
 
A member of this board, Adam (Exhibitman), has an excellent book "Ameria's Great Boxing Cards" I highly recommend it. http://www.americasgreatboxingcards.com

sportscomicfantasy 09-21-2018 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthoemke (Post 1814397)
Ask a simple question, get a not so simple answer...

Hope this older thread helps:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=111405

Thank you for your help and for pulling this up. Though I think I am still a little confused. LOL

sportscomicfantasy 09-21-2018 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herbc (Post 1814407)
A member of this board, Adam (Exhibitman), has an excellent book "Ameria's Great Boxing Cards" I highly recommend it. http://www.americasgreatboxingcards.com

Thank you, this will help a little as well!

swarmee 09-21-2018 05:02 PM

eBay sold listings, or using PSA's Auction Prices Realized:
https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/#0%7Ct218%20prize

Abe Attell is well known for his role in the 1919 Black Sox scandal.

sportscomicfantasy 09-21-2018 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1814429)
eBay sold listings, or using PSA's Auction Prices Realized:
https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/#0%7Ct218%20prize

Abe Attell is well known for his role in the 1919 Black Sox scandal.

Ah, thank you, this will also be helpful!

G1911 09-21-2018 09:19 PM

The cards were issued in 3 series.


The 1 series is a mid 1910 issue, without the series 2 notation. The series title is "Champion Athletes and Prize Fighters". Cards exist with Mecca and Hassan backs, from factories 30 and 649.


Series 2 came out in late 1910, and bears the series 2 notation. In addition to the series 2 Mecca and Hassan backs, the cards were also printed with a Hassan, factory 30 back with no series notation, and Tolstoi (very rare). All second series cards having the Hassan 30 back from series 1 as well as the series 2 backs trips up a lot of collectors in check listing.


Series 3 exists only with Mecca backs, from 2 factories again, and was issued in 1911. The series caption begins "series of..." this time, and most of the card fronts now have a thin black frame around the image.


There are 153 cards in the basic set. They are one of the more common T card issues. Johnson is the key. Jeffries, Attell, Gans, Jeanette and Langford also carry consistent premiums. Aviators, Golfers and Billiards players are more popular than the boxers and track cards. Most won't sell for more than a few bucks in VG.


The T220 set has 50 boxers, and is a late 1910-early 1911 issue. James J. Corbett, Jack Dempsey, Joe Gans, Peter Jackson, John L. Sullivan (the key) carry consistent premiums. Mecca cards have 30 and 649 backs again. Tolstoi backs are scarce, but not as tough as T218 Tolstoi's. Silver border cards carry a 2-3x premium, and feature 25 of the fronts, all with Mecca 649 backs.

sportscomicfantasy 09-21-2018 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 1814499)
The cards were issued in 3 series.


The 1 series is a mid 1910 issue, without the series 2 notation. The series title is "Champion Athletes and Prize Fighters". Cards exist with Mecca and Hassan backs, from factories 30 and 649.


Series 2 came out in late 1910, and bears the series 2 notation. In addition to the series 2 Mecca and Hassan backs, the cards were also printed with a Hassan, factory 30 back with no series notation, and Tolstoi (very rare). All second series cards having the Hassan 30 back from series 1 as well as the series 2 backs trips up a lot of collectors in check listing.


Series 3 exists only with Mecca backs, from 2 factories again, and was issued in 1911. The series caption begins "series of..." this time, and most of the card fronts now have a thin black frame around the image.


There are 153 cards in the basic set. They are one of the more common T card issues. Johnson is the key. Jeffries, Attell, Gans, Jeanette and Langford also carry consistent premiums. Aviators, Golfers and Billiards players are more popular than the boxers and track cards. Most won't sell for more than a few bucks in VG.


The T220 set has 50 boxers, and is a late 1910-early 1911 issue. James J. Corbett, Jack Dempsey, Joe Gans, Peter Jackson, John L. Sullivan (the key) carry consistent premiums. Mecca cards have 30 and 649 backs again. Tolstoi backs are scarce, but not as tough as T218 Tolstoi's. Silver border cards carry a 2-3x premium, and feature 25 of the fronts, all with Mecca 649 backs.

Wow! Just wow! Thank you, that is mostly what I was looking for, I really appreciate it.

Exhibitman 09-23-2018 02:56 PM

Good info. Johnson side view is available with multiple backs, one of the few that is.

G1911 09-23-2018 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman (Post 1814856)
Good info. Johnson side view is available with multiple backs, one of the few that is.

Should have included above. Johnson side view was is used in series 1 with only 3 of the 4 back types. It appears to have replaced HJ Handy, who was not issued with Hassan backs, though I can find no reason as to why he would be pulled. Johnson (side view) was then again issued with series 2, although it is not found with a Tolstoi back for some reason. Handy is a significant short print, though it seems to have no affect on his value

This Johnson cardís anomalous printing pattern (and that all series 2 cards were printed with a series 1 Hassan 30 back) threw me off for years when trying to checklist the Master Set so I knew what exactly I was looking for. Even accounting for its late addition in series 1 and subsequent series 2 printing, it should exist with backs that it clearly does not, though it sure explains why the card is so commonly found. The image was reversed to face the other direction on series 2 printed cards.

There are 638 or 639 cards depending on whether the Cloughen error exists with a Mecca 30 reverse. The only other card I have not seen is the Gillis error with a factory 30 back, but another poster has said they own, so it appears there is at least 1 of it. A master boxing-only set is 285 cards, which I feel confident is the final number. I suppose a Johnson (side view) Tolstoi could surface, but I think that would be surprising.

sportscomicfantasy 09-25-2018 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman (Post 1814856)
Good info. Johnson side view is available with multiple backs, one of the few that is.

Thanks for adding on, as well as jogging G1911's memory!

sportscomicfantasy 09-25-2018 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 1814957)
Should have included above. Johnson side view was is used in series 1 with only 3 of the 4 back types. It appears to have replaced HJ Handy, who was not issued with Hassan backs, though I can find no reason as to why he would be pulled. Johnson (side view) was then again issued with series 2, although it is not found with a Tolstoi back for some reason. Handy is a significant short print, though it seems to have no affect on his value

This Johnson cardís anomalous printing pattern (and that all series 2 cards were printed with a series 1 Hassan 30 back) threw me off for years when trying to checklist the Master Set so I knew what exactly I was looking for. Even accounting for its late addition in series 1 and subsequent series 2 printing, it should exist with backs that it clearly does not, though it sure explains why the card is so commonly found. The image was reversed to face the other direction on series 2 printed cards.

There are 638 or 639 cards depending on whether the Cloughen error exists with a Mecca 30 reverse. The only other card I have not seen is the Gillis error with a factory 30 back, but another poster has said they own, so it appears there is at least 1 of it. A master boxing-only set is 285 cards, which I feel confident is the final number. I suppose a Johnson (side view) Tolstoi could surface, but I think that would be surprising.

Thanks, again for the additional information. I think what you have given me, and the others I have plenty to think about and research what I need. And I am sure if not, that I can ask you guys for help!

G1911 09-25-2018 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscomicfantasy (Post 1815284)
Thanks, again for the additional information. I think what you have given me, and the others I have plenty to think about and research what I need. And I am sure if not, that I can ask you guys for help!

Glad it helps!

Exhibitman 10-04-2018 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 1814957)
A master boxing-only set is 285 cards, which I feel confident is the final number. I suppose a Johnson (side view) Tolstoi could surface, but I think that would be surprising.

That is way too many for me to chase after.


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