Is it worth the trouble to build vintage sets?
 

I like to spend the time to make sure I get high grade cards for my sets.
I build these sets card by card and often catch myself upgrading if I see a corner I don't like, etc.
However, I see that a lot of people don't like collecting sets because, as they say, "A set is only as good as the sum of it's parts."
What if each card really is nrmt?
Any thoughts?

Yes, it's worth the trouble
 

In my opinion, collecting a vintage set is worth the trouble when you keep the condition consistent for each card in the set. For example, Near Mint with no worse than 65/35 centering. You'll probably spend more than what you would if you just bought the set, but it's hard to find a high grade set that's consistent from card #1 all the way through anyway. They rarely show up for sale or at auction. Most nice sets that do make it for sale or at auction have some percentage of "problem" cards that need upgrading.

For my answer, you can see my EBAY STORE...Where my 52-79 Topps set run is listed. Got to be too much chasing all those commons around...

Lose
 

I think you will almost always lose, which is why I don't do it anymore. I think someone on here had a break down of some sets and the overall set value was like 60-70% of the singles listed i.e. if the '72 BB set books $2500 if you added it up card by card from book the number was much higher like 3K+(you get the idea). So even if you carefully pick up the cards 1 by 1 until completion you are already 30-40% in the hole when trying to resell if selling the whole set in one transaction.

I think the only way you could get someone to pay a handsome amt on a whole set is if the raw mantle clemente etc. were drop dead gorgeous, and what are the chances you will be able to finish a raw set with a 7+ quality of Mantle?

I have collected all Topps, Bowman and Fleer sets plus variations, all ungraded. But I have never had the expectation of selling them at a profit or viewed them as an investment. Just an expensive hobby that will be a windfall to some folks when I am gone.

Here's the analysis I did using Beckett high values:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=183323

To build a set card by card will always be a losing proposition from a financial standpoint. The whole is cheaper than the sum of its parts.

However, we're all collectors here and enjoy the thrill of the chase. If you enjoy building a set card by card, then do it. But understand it's probably costing you a little money.

I think the '72 set is a perfect example. You can buy a decent mid grade set for a little less than $1k. There's 130 high numbers in a '72 set that will each run you $3-5...some slightly more so just the highs will cost around $600. Then you've still got 656 more cards to chase including Mays, Ryan, Clemente, Aaron, Rose, etc.

I agree 100%. I collect for enjoyment, not investment.

When I die the enjoyment dies with me. I've already instructed my son that when I'm gone the cards are all his and he is to immediately sell them for whatever he can (it's all 100% profit for him) and spend it on something memorable and enjoyable for him.

That way three people get something out of the collection (myself, my son, the person he sells them to). Hard to see a downside there.

If your hobby is about how much money you can make from it, that's not a hobby.

It matters how you build the set. I seek good deals on lots. For example, I got a nice 1957 Lot a couple of months ago with 360 or the 407 base cards for $230. This included most of the high numbers and 23 hall of famers. The shape on the cards was mostly ExMt. It left me from needing about 150 or more cards to be upgraded to Ex to needing 17 cards needing to be upgraded to ExMt.
As you upgrade, you can sell off what you had and possibly recoup some of that money.
Its easier to build by lots than by individuals. Also, its easier to build the set first then the shape later. You can be more discriminate on when you'll buy and how much you'll pay.

^^Great price break down in the other thread^^
Buying it already completed is way cheaper. Not only do you pay way more for just the cards you have to add in all that shipping.

I am almost done with a 55 Bowman. I received at least 1/3 of the cards for free including most of the star players. With what I have into the rest of the set including shipping I could have bought a complete set in better condition.

I will say the experience of putting a set together is well worth the price.:D

+1
 

Same here, minus the Fleer.;)

The journey, not the destination
 

Hey Ben - I finished a '55 Bowman set myself recently. All ungraded cards about VG/EX. The umps are surprisingly tough, but reading their backs was more informative than the players. I had purchased twenty EX commons for five bucks from an ad in the back of a sports mag nearly forty years ago, and came upon them while looking for something else in my musty files. Have to admit that it was almost as enjoyable picking the cards up a few at a time as the work I did on all the other 50's sets back in the 80's. The economic value of it never crossed my mind.

Worth it for the money -no

Worth it for time and fun -yes

Almost all card collecting is not worth it for the money so not sure money really matters

Its all about the chase.

Set collectors get to enjoy this to infinity. There is never a moment when there is not something you need out there.

I love this aspect of the hobby.
RayB

The Chase
 

What I have found is that there is definitely a cadence when collecting a set by hand.

For me, it usually starts with buying a couple of different lots to get started... Then it seems that every card in the set you see for sale is one you need! It is awesome. Every day seems to bring another new purchase to you in the mail....

After awhile, things start slowing down a bit as you start seeing fewer cards that you "need"... Less mail shows up at your door...

Then comes the long slog... Only 10 cards left.... 9 cards left... Getting each one feels like an accomplishment but the gaps between acquisitions get longer... Where is all of my mail?

And then... finally... SUCCESS! You get the last card you need and your DONE! Well... almost... you start looking at your set and realize that you need to upgrade... Wash... Rinse... Repeat...


I am three years into building my 1953 Bowman Color set. Stuck in the long slog... 10 cards left and counting...

I enjoy collecting the set and putting it together Card by card. Investment wise I’m sure it is cheaper to buy the whole set but as a collector it is far more enjoyable putting the set together Card by card. For most of us the farther you go back the less likely it is to have the money to buy the whole set at once.

Thanks for all of the input!
It is good to hear the varied opinions.
I started collecting in 1976 with the gift of a complete set.
I then worked on every set going forward. I sold that collection
to buy diapers and food for children.
I have now been collecting for several years again and enjoy the set building experience. I am also looking to
eventually sell my collection again for a fair price.

I just appreciate what you all have to say.

Kindred spirit here
I collect for the fun and the memories, only spending what I can afford without effecting the family. When I am gone the boys can do what they wish. I could care less what my sets are worth versus what they cost me to put them together. Nothing like the excitement of getting the last few cards for a set even if they are not big names.

I don’t want all that volume. I didn’t care about Sixto Lezcano when his card came out of (every) pack I busted as a kid and I don’t want to collect his cards now just to check off a checklist. I prefer to collect just the cards and players that meant something to me and use the money I’d spend on commons for something else.

Funny you mention Sixto, Adam. When I was a kid I thought he was cool just for his name alone. Unfortunately, his batting average was cool as well...

There is at least one guy, besides Sixto, who likes Sixto. When I built the Topps 1985 Mini set in both regular and blank back, someone contacted me and said he was a collector of all Sixto cards and offered me a lot of money for the blank back. But since it was part of a fairly tough set I kept it.

Also, what does the little green arrow on this thread mean ?

I've really enjoyed reading this thread if for no other reason than to confirm there are other collectors out there who share some of my thoughts and preferences. I'm a set-builder who likes decent-condition raw cards with no regard for their investment value. I started collecting as a second-grader in 1972; beginning in 1974, the first year all the cards were issued in one series, I realized that spending all my allowance and lawn-mowing money on wax packs made putting together the complete set possible. Since then I've been obsessed with having the entire set of whatever year I'm collecting.

My only exception is a separate collection of Clemente, Aaron, Mays and Frank Howard cards. I started acquiring duplicates of all their Topps cards (so as not to break up my existing sets), then trying to obtain every Topps insert (1968 game card, 1964 stand-ups, 1963 peel-offs, etc.) and every non-Topps card of them (interesting that Aaron didn't appear in '63 Fleer or the early-'70s Kelloggs cards). My set-completing tendencies have taken over -- it genuinely bugs me that I haven't yet acquired the 1969 Transograms of Aaron and Mays or the 1962 Canadian version of Clemente's Post cereal card. I'll probably never get any pre-1954 Mays cards or Aaron's rookie, but it's important to have goals.

Why does Topps put numbers on their cards? They want you to get them all by buying more packs. Why does Topps have SPs? They want you to buy more packs to get them all. Why does Topps no longer sell gum? Gum stains damage cards and no one putting a set together wants to chew the gum from all the packs they were “forced” to buy.

Factory sets you say. Yup, one and done, but booooooooooring. Keep the shrink wrap intact and never look at the cards to prepare for the 2083 REA Auction.
Problem solved.

To fool around a couple of years ago I put a 1950 Bowman FB set together. I purchased lots and individual cards with only 1 rule. What was the rule? When completed the set was not have cost me more than $8/card. This created an interesting challenge, because I also wanted the set to be as nice as possible, but then again I couldn’t blow my wad on a high grade Graham, Tittle or Baugh.

The chase and the end result were both interesting. I was able to feed the kitty, so to speak, by selling dupes from lots for a modest profit. To stay within my proscribed budget though I did end up with lower condition cards of Graham and Tittle. However my Baugh is respectable. About 40 of the cards are graded and overall the set is EX-EXMT. Less than 10% of the cards are outliers on the low end. I spent less than $1300 on the set and think it would sell as a set for more now.

A more recent project was my mutilated 1955 Topps Baseball Set including both RCs of Clemente and Koufax. Here no effort was made on card condition. It’s raunchy but complete and represents my only true “OBC-like” experience.

So many options on putting sets together other than PSA Registry Sets (UGH!)

I love the CHASE more than the results.

My current project is completing my 1953 Topps set. I have graded Mantle and Mays cards, but the rest are raw and I go after EX-MT or better.

I am down to 20 cards, but there is no rush...stringing that wonderful chase out as long as possible.


I buy emotionally and, for the most part, 'DON'T NEED NO STINKING BUDGET!'.

I collect for the enjoyment and don't worry too much about loosing money...let the nephews worry about that after I'm gone..



-

Frank-- the kind of prattle in your post above belongs on the main board in the What you don't know thread :)

Am I the only one who views vintage set building as an enjoyable investment opportunity? I recently talked to a dealer that said he sold a high grade 1959 topps set for $20,000. I spend a lot of time on my hobby. I have that luxury since my kids are grown and I don't have a wife.
I do hope that when the time is right, I can pass on my collection to other
collectors.

$20 k
 

The best that even PWCC could do with a complete 1959 Topps baseball set was $3400-- that 20K set must have been very high up in the registry. Amazing price for a '59.

..

I believe that in person deals will always be better than any online deals.

To Infinity, and beyond!
 

Amen brother!:)

I have recently gotten back into collecting over the past few years, and love building sets. T75 was/is my favorite childhood set and I bought a nice complete EX/EX+ one since my own stack of 75's some of which I owned for 40+ years varied from F to EX+.

But since then I have built up other vintage sets in other manners: buying starter lots, first on ebay, then on this board while filling in the key cards from shows, the major dealers (eg. Dean or 707), then ebay and even trading w/ other members here, which is more fun and less expensive in many cases. Slower of course but more interactive in the absence of live trading which is hard because of distance and time.

So I'm open to trading in order help each other complete sets!

My son and I both collect sets. I am currently working on the 55 Bowman baseball set(need 25-30 to finish). No hurry as I look for cards in the 5-7 grade range. I'm 2 1/2 years into the set. My son started his 1970 baseball set at the same time I started the 55's. Today at a show he found his last card to complete his set (Mazeroski). As we were leaving the show he says to me "now what do I do, my set is done. I guess I'll have to start another set"
The hunt for cards is a lot of fun, especially when you are with your son. Even if he is 39 years old.

I wondered that too - I don't think it means the OP is Oliver Queen.:confused:

You can add that decorative arrow with a click when you create a new thread. To paraphrase Shakespeare, it is a tale full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

What are you guys even talking about?
The green arrow means " Hey look over here!"
So, this thread has definitely drifted away.
Thanks for all of the focused input.

I have to wait till the money wouldn't be needed for more important things, but I would so much love to collect a complete set of 1934-36 Diamond Stars or 1957 Topps someday--maybe 1953 Bowman. First things first though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Building sets a card at a time is a great hobby but a lousy investment. When it's time to sell, you are probably better off breaking them up.

I agree, I am almost 90% of the way on a 52 Topps graded set. Out of the many nongraded/graded sets I have built, this is the only set I can remember not starting with a "starter lot". However, maybe only a third of the cards in the set have been purchased as a stand alone purchase. Throughout the 12+ years of building this set, I have tried to acquire cards in small lots as well as buy multiple cards from a seller to save on s/h.

Since ebay bucks came out years ago, I have used those to fund this set. I have also used all of my work CC "points" to apply to my purchases for this set....while it has been a lot of fun building this set, I hope it to also be a sound investment.

Yes--
 

This is a very intelligent approach . 90% in 12 years , all graded '52 Topps.....few of us would have that kind of focus . Do you have a wantlist of the absent 10% ? Must they all be a particular TPG ? The good ole BST here might help you out ? Good hunting.

..

Thank you, but more than anything it has been fun building. I wish I could say I was focused on this set for 12 years straight. To be perfectly honest, there were some years in there I did not focus on this set at all, however, after completing whatever set distracted me, my focus would return back to the 52s.

The set is all PSA and appears on the registry, link below. Over the past few years, I have picked up a good number of cards for this set off of our BST. My wantlist consists of just high numbers....while most of the needed cards are readily available, my funds to acquire these needed cards are not readily available. Based on the costs needed to complete this set, I have a 4 year goal to finish. I am in no hurry, it is about the hunt.

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...blishedset/100

Hocus Focus
 

In the last thirty nine years of my set collecting, lack of focus has never been a concern of any kind. Perhaps that is an insidious result of ageing, but the enjoyment of finally holding a completed set of unslabbed cards that I might have first flipped through as an eight-year-old unfocused delinquent is greater than most other pleasures still left to me. Most of us who have worked on completing less than gem mint vintage card sets have probably had their focus falter occasionally during the process.

I enjoy putting together sets, though not so much when I have to shell out $$ for a high number or SP Joe Schmoe. It's certainly not the most economical way to own a set, but it is less painful - one small drop of blood at a time.

What I've always wondered about is the life cycle of sets that we put together. I'm sure many of us building sets have bought individual or groups of cards that became available because of a 'set break'. So those particular cards are in constant flux, being assembled with their brothers and then having the family torn apart. And each time, money changes hands. Some people will make money (usually the dealer or 'breaker-aparter') and others will spend money (the 'set builders'). We'll keep our sets for a while, and then sell them, likely to be broken up individually, resold and then assembled again to make another set.

I try to reconcile how this cycle can not only be self-sustaining, but that people can actually make money inserting themselves into the cycle. I guess as long as card values continue to rise, then energy (money) is being put into the system and someone can tap into it to siphon some of that money off. Or the constant buying and selling is exploiting some inefficiency in the market - say I sell a set for less than I put into assembling it. Someone then can make that money back by breaking up the set and selling it for more individually than they paid for the complete set. Somehow, the energy has to balance.

Now, what was the original question???

This is a great thread. I’ve been thinking about this exact same topic while putting together a ‘70 set and cringing having to pay 8 to 12 bucks per card for the seventh series numbers 634-720 for player like Al McBean, Adolfo Phillips or Mike Fiore.

So I’ve been weighing the pros and cons of buying a set outright for $1400 to $2000 and selling off any doubles or cards I’m not satisfied with the condition or continue to pick them off a few cards at a time. I figured it made more sense economically to buy the complete set but it was great reading everyone’s opinions and experience on the topic.

I build the vintage sets because I enjoy it. I don’t look on it as an investment. I am also hoping that eventually my son will share this interest with me. You can’t put a price on that.

I have two...low grade 55 bowman and 69 Topps that I am finishing a second set on. I am sure I won’t be able to sell them profitably but maybe someone will have something I can trade for.

Hope no one minds me bumping this thread after a couple of months. I truly enjoyed reading it! I recently finished a '66 Topps football set and bought a '65 Topps tall boy football set. I am at 121/198 on a '65 Philly football set but starting to get restless. Also, I am anticipating pitchers and catchers reporting in about two weeks. I am kicking around the idea of starting a '61 Topps set...mostly raw (except for a few of the bigger ones probably) in crease-free mid-grade. I sold a '65 Topps set about 2/3 complete last summer and have recently regretted it. I have really been missing baseball, especially 60s Topps.

Like Al and others mentioned, this for me is a fun hobby...albeit a pricey one at times. I know it would be quicker and perhaps more cost effective to buy whole sets or large lots, but I like having control over each and every card. I am somewhat OCD :eek:. I might buy 50-75 cards at a time with a favorite seller and when I do, I get prices that I can really live with.

Anyway, great thread. Just wanted to chime in.

Well don't discount bulk purchases to cherry pick the ones you want and resell the ones you don't. I once put together a 1971 Topps baseball this way for under $200 net dollars in EX/MT. You can't be in a rush, but it can be very cost effective!

This is the most frustrating thing about putting sets together. I am the type that wants this to be a spring and not a marathon, but I don't have the money to nor do I want to buy a set. I want to put them together piece by piece. But by buying a few lots, it gives me very few cards to trade. Plus, no one seems to want to trade around here with me.

I've got about 50 different from 1963, 1959 and 1961, so kicking around the idea of starting those sets. But I've got about 625 different '74s, 400+ different '71s and nearly 200 different '62s. So that would be 6 sets in progress if I decide to add 3 more. I have completely sold out of my modern stuff since moving into vintage in August. But I sure do love the vintage stuff.

Here's my question. For those of you putting sets together, do you wait until you have a certain amount of the set before putting them into pages and into a notebook? Or do you even use a notebook? Or do you just sleeve them and put them into a box? I have a friend that puts all of his baseball sets in toploaders and into a filing cabinet. He then puts all of his football sets into pages. I personally prefer to have my cards in pages so I can more easily look through them. But it's harder to price them in pages since you can't put the cards into sleeves and into the pages. I want to put prices on individual cards so my wife would have an idea of where to start should something happen to me.

Well, I can relate to some of what you are saying. I really wouldn't want to buy a set in most cases. I have before, but it is more fun to build one. Besides, like you, I couldn't afford one most of the time anyway, so that takes the pressure off. ;) I tend to end up trying to build them piece by piece. Partly this is because it is easier for me financially to bite a little off at a time, and also because I just tend to like doing it that way. Inevitably, I lose interest and start on something else. What I have improved upon, however, is that I no longer sell off what I started on and then stopped. I just put it up and then eventually come back to it when my interest swings back that way. This "formula" has actually been working for me.

As to your question about cards and pages, if you want to have a little extra protection and/or the ability to price/display them in binders, toploaderbinder.com makes a good product. These allow you to place the card in the toploader and into the binder. They are somewhat pricey, but do a decent job. You can also buy some unikeep enclosed binders (3 for $20 I think) and some 4 pocket ultra pro pages and put your cards in toploaders or cardsavers or whatever and organize them that way, too. Neither is a perfect system but might help you. Good luck!

You care to elaborate a little on this? Not sure I am understanding everything here...

I love collecting my sets OBC Style. I'd rather have a hole in my card than a hole in my collection. I could care less about condition as long as I can recognize the card it's good enough for me. I've never collected my sets for profit or investment. They are all built for fun and comradery with my friends. Simple really.

AndyH

Some people love that stuff in their sets, I know. But when I get cards, if any have creases/bends/indentations, are badly off centered, have paper loss, pin holes, etc., they go into the trash.

I collect Ex or better with 85/15 or better centering and no creases/bends/indentations. I can stand a rough edge (no rounded), but not any paper loss.

Makes building sets a bit tougher. But it's tough anyway because people price their stuff at like half of BV for singles. That's why I try to buy lots here and there and then trade extras for stuff I need. By doing that, I put together a 1958 Topps set in Ex or better condition for under $500. I'm currently $50 into my '62 Topps set, and I have nearly 200 different.

But to be honest, I have trouble trading around here. I guess because I'm new and I've only been here about 2-3 years. Not really sure why it's so tough to trade around here.