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04-08-2009 05:31 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Bob DonaldsonCycle 460

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04-08-2009 08:31 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis1st....the 10 red Cobb's reported (so far) with PIEDMONT 460 Fac. 42 do not surprise me in the least. If we were to get a lot more participation in this survey (at least 200 inputs), we would get a more realistic perspective. And, the 10 red Cobb's with P460/42 backs would not seem out of line. 2nd....in a P460/42 survey that I ran last November, the six super-prints (this red Cobb is one) were more often reported with P460/42 backs than other 350/460 subjects. Furthermore, I have a theory why this Cobb is found with many P460/42 backs. The PIEDMONT brand was very popular in the South- east, so American Litho. printed up many red Cobb's at the tail end of the PIEDMONT run and shipped them to Durham, NC (Factory 42) to be inserted into the L&M PIEDMONT packs. 3rd....Finally, In recent years, P460/42 cards have been sought after much more so than in the past. The 1st T206 set that I put together back in the 1980's had 4 - P460/42 cards in it....that I was not even aware of. Simply, because this back was seldom seen (most collectors were unaware of it). When Bill Heitman published The Monster in 1980, Red HINDU backed T206's were virtually unknown. TED Z

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04-08-2009 08:41 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: DrewHi Ted My red Cobbs sweet cap 350..30 tolstoi Drew

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04-08-2009 08:43 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Scott StifflerSweet Cap 350 / factory 30

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04-08-2009 09:12 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Frank A.Ted; I am not reporting another Cobb, but pulled my card out to check the factory number again. It is a Sweet Cap factory 25, 350 back. Are these for some reason scarce, as I see all others are fac 30

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04-08-2009 11:07 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThe Red Cobb is not often seen with a Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 25 (VA) back. And, it is less seen with a Sweet Caporal 460 Factory 25 back. I'm not sure why this is so....as the Factory 30 (NY) versions of both these Sweet Caps are very plentiful. TED Z

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04-08-2009 01:57 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: ErikV I have a red back Cobb (PSA 3).....Piedmont It's a 350/460 back, factory 25/dist. 2. Edited to include t-brand.

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04-08-2009 05:56 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisYou left out the T-brand on your " xx 460 Fac, 25 " Cobb ? TED Z

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04-08-2009 05:57 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks BOB, DREW, SCOTT and ERIK for your Cobb inputs and thanks to two Net54 readers that have contacted me with their inputs. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/8/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..0....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..5....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..2....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..3....SOVEREIGN 350 ..0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..6....TOLSTOI ..7....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..2....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 11....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 12....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 ..9....POLAR BEAR OK, we have 102 total inputs.....but, we still need many more data points in order to arrive at some valid conclusions. Guys & gals, do not be shy about telling us of your Red Cobb cards....hop onto this bandwagon and add your Cobb(s) to this list. Hey JEFF L....where are all these Cobb's you have ? TED Z

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04-08-2009 07:13 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Marc S.included above come from a collector? If so, you might want to add in the example that is in REA to your population.

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04-08-2009 08:45 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThe Red HINDU recorded in the survey list is the one from the current REA auction. TED Z

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04-09-2009 12:44 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: JBPiedmont 350................add one for that Cobb.

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04-09-2009 02:35 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: JustinI have a Sweet Caporal 350-460 overprint

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04-09-2009 03:18 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: David McDonaldKeep up the good work, Ted. <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/bbbofsfirstclass/miscellanybaseball/websize/exexCobb%20holding%20T206ex.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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04-15-2009 08:05 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisReceived 11 more inputs, since I've been "computer-less"....so, here is the updated tally for anyone still interested. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/15/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..0....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..5....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..2....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..3....SOVEREIGN 350 ..0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..6....TOLSTOI ..9....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..3....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 12....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 14....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 10....POLAR BEAR We have a total of 113 inputs....but, we need at least 200 inputs in order to arrive at some meaningful conclusions. Guys and gals, don't be shy....show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Hey Jeff Lichtman......we are still waiting to see all your Red Cobb's....are you hoarding them ? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> TED Z

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04-15-2009 09:15 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanTed, glad to see you again! We tried all that we could to lure you out of hiding on the new board -- to no avail! I've got a single red Cobb and it's a lowly Piedmont 350, factory 25.

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04-15-2009 09:26 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Craig WHi Ted, Last nite a T213-1 Red Cobb ended on ebay. I know you believe the Type 1 Coupons should be part of T206, so I thought you might like to be aware of it. (I tried a snipe of $1200, but obviously I got blown out of the water!) Here's the link: <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:I T&item=120401023810" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:I T&item=120401023810</a>

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04-15-2009 09:31 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Bruce MacAdd another Old Mill to your list.

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04-15-2009 10:10 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI saw your's and John W's "lures"....as soon as I can get the software to enable my computer with it's new Hard Drive to work with my scanner....I will "blow you guys out of the water" with my T206 Cobb. Incidently, I must say, I'm disappointed that you did have some "exotic" Red Cobb's <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> TED Z

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04-15-2009 12:54 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Donavon ArabieCraig, I bid on the T213-1 Cobb as well, but couldn't make myself go any higher. The paperloss killed it for me & the top edge definately looked trimmed. Still a nice card, though.

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04-15-2009 03:20 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI'm not going to add this "baby" to the survey list....lest I'll get grief from the " Burdick can't be wrong" crowd....and, who do I think I am to question him ? Thanx for bringing this 1910 Coupon to my attention. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> TED Z

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04-16-2009 11:58 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Brian Weisner Hi Ted, Here are my Red Cobb's..... 1 Carolina Brights 1 Polar Bear 1 EPDG 1 Old Mill 1 Sovereign 350 1 Piedmont 460 42 1 Sweet Cap 460 25 1 Piedmont 350 1 Sweet Cap 460 30 Be well Brian

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04-16-2009 12:11 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: John<img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/huge/jpeg.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Ted funny you should say exotic Cobb's Jeff and I just purchased all these. All of the backs are Red Hindu....

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04-16-2009 01:28 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks ole buddy......9 - Red Cobb's......now, that is really impressive. We might get to 200 cards, yet. Best regards, Brian. TED Z

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04-16-2009 01:28 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisYour array of 7 pastel colored Cobb's are a pretty sight to see......However, check-out my 2 extraordinary UZIT Cobb's...... The "exotic-ness" of these two Cobb's certainly trump your 7 Cobb's....<img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abcobbbatuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> American Litho. must of thought Cobb was brandishing his "weapon" on this one and printed him with their T80 series. T-Rex TED

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04-16-2009 01:34 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: JohnLMAO...Ted Cobb always said baseball was like war.

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04-16-2009 03:55 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Bruce BabcockAnyone have a guess as to how many red Cobbs (including all backs) exist? Probably an easier question is, how many red Cobbs have been graded, all companies included?

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04-16-2009 04:15 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Jim VBBruce, PSA shows they have graded 1093. SGC shows 303. Edited to add - I'll check with GAI on Monday.

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04-16-2009 05:26 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Brian E.Ted, I noticed your list is seeking to track the Red Hindus but I don't see an entry for a regular Hindu....In the years that I've been collecting the different Cobb backs, I've seen more EPDG, Lenox, Cycle and Uzits than even a normal Hindu Cobb. Brian E.

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04-16-2009 05:35 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Dave HornishIs the Red Cobb the most graded card at PSA and SGC?

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04-16-2009 06:49 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Jim VBDave, That's a pretty broad question. I don't think either company makes that info searchable in their database.

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04-16-2009 06:50 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Jim VBTed, I have two, both Sweet Cap 350 Factory 30.

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04-16-2009 06:58 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI don't know how we can establish a grand total population of how many Red Cobb cards exist. Grading Co. POP reports are at best misleading (due to constant churning of re-grading). And, there are still many old dinosaurs like me who have ungraded Cobb's (currently, I have 4 such Red Cobb's). Then there are (by my count) 30 different Red Cobb's....24 T206's, Ty Cobb back, 1910 Coupon, T213-2, T213-3, T214 and T215....which complicates any true count of this Subject. Here is what we do know......in two independent T206 surveys totalling over 40,000 cards, the Red Cobb out-numbers all other T206 Subjects (except the 5 other Super-Prints) by a factor of approx. 2 to 1. The closest Subjects were guys like Johnson (portrait) and Joss (pitching). From these surveys, Johnson's sample was 110 cards and Joss' sample was 124 cards....while the Red Cobb's sample was 196. TED Z

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04-16-2009 07:34 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisYou noted...... "I noticed your list is seeking to track the Red Hindus but I don't see an entry for a regular Hindu...." Are you alluding to the Brown HINDU back ? I don't think you are, because the Brown HINDU back exists only in the 150/350 Series of T206's. The Red Cobb was printed in the 350/460 Series; and therefore, can never be found with a Brown Hindu back. TED Z

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04-16-2009 07:40 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks JEFF L, BRUCE M, BRIAN W, JIM VB and a Net54 reader for your inputs. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/16/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..0....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 11....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..4....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..6....TOLSTOI 11....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 14....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 16....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 11....POLAR BEAR We have a total of 127 inputs....but, we need at least 200 inputs in order to arrive at some meaningful conclusions. Guys and gals, don't be shy....show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. TED Z

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04-16-2009 09:05 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: RichardTed - Here is a drum. Not mine, but wish it was. <a href="http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=32&lot_num=646&amp ;lot_qual=" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=32&lot_num=646&amp ;lot_qual=</a>

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04-17-2009 06:48 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI was aware of this Cobb when the Hunt find was reported. But, I didn't input it, hoping that some one here would provide a scan. Thanks again, TED Z

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04-20-2009 07:34 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks to Richard and 4 emails responses from Net54 readers, we have 6 more inputs. TED Z

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04-20-2009 07:37 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/20/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..1....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..4....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..6....TOLSTOI 11....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 14....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 20....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 11....POLAR BEAR We have a total of 133 inputs.....it doesn't look like we'll attain the 200 figure that I hoped for. Anyhow, we are 2/3 rds of the way there, and that will do for now. If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. And, the only T206 back that has not been reported is the UZIT....does any one have one ? TED Z

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04-20-2009 11:18 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Glyn ParsonI have a Piedmont 460 Factory 25.

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04-21-2009 11:30 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis GLYN....thanks for your PIEDMONT 460/25 input. Also, I received a Net54 reader's email input with a TOLSTOI back. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Here's my UZIT red Cobb.....it's too bad that it's my gimmicked-up fake. Otherwise, if real, it would be a really unique error that would command big $$$$$$. Actually, I'm surprised that such printing mistakes haven't been found, since American Lithographic was printing these Red Cobb's and the T80 Military men cards, simultaneously, in early 1911. In any event, still looking for a Red Cobb with a UZIT back to confirm its 24 different T206 backs. Or, any other Red Cobb's will do ? TED Z

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04-21-2009 11:42 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: ToddI have one red Cobb. It has an Old Mill back.

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04-21-2009 12:45 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Bruce BabcockHi, Ted. I agree completely with you about resubmissions and ungraded cards owned by old farts like me. I was surprised, though, by how many have been graded, even accounting for resubmissions.

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04-21-2009 06:35 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: gil lindgrented,you can add a sweet caporal 350 factory #30 to the list.

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04-21-2009 10:12 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Jeff D.You can add another Piedmont 460 factory 25 to the list.

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04-22-2009 07:19 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: brian pOne more Piedmont 350 factory 25 can be added to the list. Brian

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04-22-2009 08:43 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks for bringing up this subject again. I have given this some thought and I think we can extrapolate and arrive at an educated guess to answer your original question. Let's do a little math here...... Let's assume that this random survey of 40,000 T206 cards is valid. It yielded 196 red Cobb's......and, an over all ave- rage (OAA) of 78 each of the other 509 T206's. 40,000/509 T206 Subjects = OAA of 78 T206's.....509 = 524 - (the Big 6, 6-Super Prints, Dahlen, Elberfeld, Lundgren) 40,000/196 = a red Cobb per every 200 cards Red Cobb/OAA = 2.5 red Cobb's per any other 509 Subjects Simply stated, the Red Cobb lies somewhere between a Double Print and a Triple Print. Furthermore, Scot Reader, in his book "Inside T206", has a chapter on the "survivability" of the T206 cards. If I recall correctly, he estimates approx. 1 to 2 Million cards. I think Scot's estimate is a good one. So, if we divide 1 Million T206's by 200, it yields 5,000 red Cobb's. This number might sound high; and, I'm sure I'll be challenged on this population #.....but, that's my best guess. Best regards, TED Z

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04-22-2009 12:12 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks....TODD....GIL....JEFF....BRIAN....fo r your Red Cobb inputs. I'm going to visit an old hobby friend tonite who has a huge T206 collection (all ungraded), which includes 8 red Cobb's. So, I will be upgrading this survey late tonite or tomorrow with at least 14 new inputs. TED Z

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04-22-2009 12:15 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Mike MattisonPolar Bear for me.

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04-22-2009 12:25 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: ToddTed, Your survey is very interesting. It would be nice to know how many of the cards sampled have been graded. Most of my card collection is ungraded. Wonka - Love that yellow and purple Cobb ! Keep up the good work !

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