Heritage putting up junk on their website for all to see. fake ALI
 

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...lotIdNo=111002

why does heritage put up this obvious carp when it is so obvious bad and we have seen them a million times and heritage has pulled them a bunch of times already. Doesn't anyone there know what one of these operation bullpen phase two john olson/chuck wepner signed fake autographs looks like yet.

Why do they keep doing this? It makes them look real bad. Aren't they suppose to be a professional auction house?

Do they really need Steve Spence or Jimmy Grad to tell them its no good. they can't figure it out beforehand? M. Guttierez isn't there and doesn't know this fake by now? Who is there???

Which one do you think looks like a carp? sorry but it's just not obvious to me.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...JMwaDe414-aN7P

Probably the same carp that won't allow me to join the "Planet."

Doesn't Travis always complain about a certain web site he claims only allows like-minded opinions? Gee, is he doing the same thing on his site? :rolleyes:

Exactly, Mr. Zipper....

Thank you.

They are the only auction house that spends money to unpack, data enter, photograph, write up descriptions for and list an item that someone can obviously see in 5 seconds that it is one of the most notorious, and well known boxing fakes ever invented.

They should open the box, look inside, close the box, and there I just saved the auction house a lot of money and man hours.

I guess that is their choice.. thank goodness for psa and jsa to save potential buyers. They do a great service to Heritage and the industry. Money well spent. :)

Why would you want to pay all those people, to take time out of their busy day, to data enter, photograph, write the write-up for the listing, type it in and put up the listing, only to take it down when all you need is a picture of that type of fake right there in the shipping/rec. area and when it comes in just reject it.

plus the embarrassment of putting it up only to be shown it is a fake over and over and over again. how many now? a lot! Guttierez is on jsa staff for pete sake, he cant find this and boot it off right away?

My question is. If you and anyone on this site knows it is bad why post it. It is not thank god that psa or anyone would find it to be bad. We all know its bad.:confused:
I am not here to protect Travis. I just can not stand that auction houses put garbage in our face and then make tpa's look good by takeing down items that never should have been there:mad::mad:

They don't have that many Ali's coming in. you would think a quick check of things could get this one pulled before they take time photographing it, and writing up a description and posting it on their website. what a waste!

That's all $$$ out the door. why?

Dude.. you gotta get over it. It is their money to waste. It really is not a big deal at all. If they want to do it this way, they can. They get great prices realized so it really doesn't matter if it bothers a select few. Especially if the few it bothers don't bid on the ACTUAL ITEMS that go to auction anyway. They are not out to fool anyone.. it is just how their process works.
You should thank them. It gives you constant, repetative crap to post on here in attempt to make them look bad and you look like an expert.

Ben is right. Travis is in a minority and the situation that he's complaining about was created by the majority, and it is all about money. It works for the TPA's and the auction houses, and the majority of people are happy as hell with it. Travis - you should just feel fortunate that you are in that informed minority, although that can be quite a burden. Just ask guys like Nietsche, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Van Gogh, etc.

Blissfully ignorant people have always helped make the world a happier place. I think I will drink my next beer to them.

cheers!! :)

Lol. I spit out my coffee on this one.

Oh, come now....
;)

Steve, do you mean the "Planet" didn't approve your registration either.....

Shocking..............

Not....

Steve, it wasn't Travis that didn't accept our registration over at the "Planet." It was probably Mueller.....

No, I did not apply. I was referring to you and someone else we know who applied and was rejected as well.

Apparently they want everyone singing from the same sheet. That's fine.. it's their web site and they can do anything they want with it. The hypocrisy is that it is the same thing Travis loudly criticizes Cyrkin for (which is a false claim in the first place.)

all i know is heritage likes to ban people. people trying to help them. but they dont want to hear it.

Can you explain what is bad about it? Doesn't pop out to me.

I am really loving this thread. I like that Travis says whatever he thinks and doesn't go ballistic when we ridicule him. Travis - hope to meet you at next year's National. You have started some very entertaining threads and as a boxing collector, I am grateful for your sharing of your boxing autograph knowledge.

while I agree with your ASSessment of Heritage, it sounds like you are a bigger, dumber and stupider than even Heritage. They ban you, you ban them, ban everybody...I wish they would ban you from this respected site, slant boy....as you garner about as much respect as Rodney Dangerfield....AND pretty much as humorous in a knumbest of skulls kinda way. Pretty much a confirmed jerk-off, IMHO

Chuck, next time, please tell us how you really feel................

I don't believe my question has been answered?

I have learned from reading these boards is Travis never answers direct questions.

xxxxx

......

. . . . . . . .

Thank you, and i have learned that if you want to say something, no need for others permission.

I see heritage has even ANOTHER operation bullpen Ali up on the its site right now, so two stinkers stinking it up over there.

Geez, Rich, I guess Travis & Nora Roste, Todd Mueller and Koschal must like you. I see they accepted you as a member of "The Planet."

These same pieces show up on ebay and they are pieces of carp. but on heritage, it's no big deal? why?

"Are you talking about me again, Travis?"

Attachment 110679

They're getting worse as they go.

"autographed with one of the most desirable variations of all"

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...No=45010#Photo
http://www.fighttoys.com/Ali,Muhamma...%205a%20SR.jpg

exactly, the john olson/chuck wepner variation, so desirable!

they truly embarrass themselves. they are not boxing aficionados at all. they don't care.

They put them up without knowing if its good or not.

there is no difference between this and someone on ebay just throwing something up not knowing if what they are selling is good or not. Most will get mad at the ebayer who doesnt know if an autograph is good and just slaps it up there, but they are okay with a major auction house doing it. they actually spent money on a photographer and caption writer who took their time to put this up on their website when all they had to do is take one look at it and throw it in the garbage and save everyone some $$$. Businesses pass these extra operationg costs onto the consumer. It's basic economics.

I am not okay with this.

Travis, it really doesn't seem like you are listening to your fellow forum members. The people buying this stuff want something that looks 'close enough' to impress their friends or fill a hole in their collection - the PSA or JSA letter makes it real enough, and buying from a major auction house makes it even more 'real'. It is a symbiotic relationship between the consumer, the TPAs and the customers - everyone involved is a winner, and YOU are not one of the players. It isn't your game.

Well Travis.....keep plugging away.....even if you are that one lone voice in the wilderness....personally, I commend what you do.

Regardless of what paper it comes with, what auction house sells it, or who buys it, a fake will always be a fake, and nothing will ever change that.

I thought this forum was to help stop the sale of forgeries, not condone this simply because one is tired of hearing about it over and over.

Dave, who are you rebutting? I've never seen anyone anywhere on this forum, condone the sale of forgeries.

No one has condoned the sale of fakes. It's just that not everyone is committed to waging a crusade against Heritage showing bad items in PREVIEW. The item in question is currently in preview and is scheduled to auction October 24 - 26.

The fact of the matter is these items are pulled before the auction goes live and they are not sold. So the only victim I see is Heritage's image.

Does Heritage have a bad process if they are throwing items in preview before they are properly screened? In my opinion - yes.

Will I spend more than 5 seconds thinking about it? Nope.

I'd rather focus my energy on entities that are actually selling bad items... not just showing them off before they are withdrawn prior to auction.

This is the first thing I read on the link provided in the OP:

Note: Heritage Auctions' preview items are posted for the enjoyment and convenience of our clients, as well as to seek feedback from experts before the descriptions and authentication are finalized. As such, these items may not have yet been properly described or vetted. Our auction previews let you watch our auction grow. We post individual lots in our previews as soon as they have a description or a picture, so you don't have to wait until the auction is posted to get a glimpse of the items you want. We are continuing to add and correct information as we approach the auction posting date, so check back here often and Contact us with any comments or suggestions.

I agree that this is not the most efficient business practice, but HA can do whatever they want. I don't see it as damaging to the hobby.

Please don't get in the way of Travis's crusade to nowhere. Go get 'em Travis, you houndog you!!

i suppose when we got heritage to stop putting "auction loa-jsa" on their lots leon, when jsa hadnt looked at them yet, that was an action to nowhere too?

thanks for helping with that by the way. go get em leon!

heritage the only auction house which puts up any old thing that comes in the door first and THEN vetting it later. it's unbelievable. We don't need leon's help to get heritage to do the right thing. we did it once already without his help, too high of a price to pay for some, we got our accounts banned, so please don't get up leon, you are fine where you are.

Kudos to Heritage! :D;)

We, we, we; The Group lives!

I get private messages, emails from people who tell me they agree but they can't say so publicly for fear of retaliation or retribution. A number of people.

Some are scared of being singled out or banned for having an opinion that differs from the so called established line that some of these big entities like heritage have set forth as what you must believe in order to be in good graces in the collecting community. IF you disagree you have to talk the gauntlet and be on the 'outs'.

I personally have not experienced any auction house that is more unreceptive to customer concerns and unwilling to change for the better of the hobby and the collecting experience like this auction house. We aren't asking them to change the color scheme of their website or something trivial, just asking to do a modicum of research beforehand to keep the fake autographs off of the auction website. They even let these fakes go live for internet auction bidding. Why?

Chris Ivy will you come on here. no he will not, if he does, what a mriacle. he can tell collectors why these hideous autographs go up on the website.

The problem with you Travis is that you don't listen. Had you read the Heritage statement above, that was posted, you wouldn't have commented about them and the autographs on their site. They want to do it the way they are doing it, vetting after the fact. I also think it might not be the most efficient way but that is the way they do it. For you to comment the way you did means everyone is correct about you, you fail to listen.

Now, if they let auctions go up for bid that aren't good, that's a different story, and they SHOULD be pointed out. And for the record, it takes a ton to get banned from Heritage. I know Chris Ivy quite well and I can safely say that if someone questions something, in a professional manner, then they will not get banned. I think there is a lot behind you being banned...and it's not just because you politely and professionally questioned items in their auctions. Most likely it's because you incessantly pestered their executives and also called Heritage fraudulent, which they aren't. Do they, and have they, made mistakes; absolutely. Do they commit fraud, no. It's all in the way you deliver your message Travis. Almost every single person on this board points out that the way you go about your crusade is wrong. But then, you don't listen so what's the use in pointing it out? Just like this post of mine, you won't listen. Here's a hint...when everyone else is wrong, take a long hard look in the mirror, because "everyone" else usually isn't wrong. It's quite the shame too, because I am sure you are good at your niche of autographs. But many hobbyists don't realize it, or can't get to the good part of your rants, because of the way your message comes across. There are a lot of bad guys in the hobby but Heritage isn't one of them.

Should there be some concern that newbies could be using these fakes they see on Heritage to self authenticate fakes on ebay, craigslist, etc? After all, it is Heritage one of the largest sports auctions in the world. I personally think they bring great items to market and do a good job overall, but I think them posting fakes on their site at all can reflect badly on them. I will not however lose much sleep over it and will still bid on card lots that I can use.

James, my thought is that having an exemplar (good or bad) is not enough if you don't know 'enough' about autographs to do accurate comparisons.

There are at least four levels of autograph-recognition skills: 1) expert on the autograph; 2) can tell good from bad (most of the time) if given exemplars; 3) think they can tell good from bad if given exemplars, but really can't; 4) admittedly have to have someone else do everything for them.

There is no protecting those in category #3.

I am probably a 4 trying to climb the ladder and hope to skip rung number three if I can keep my balance.

#3 is a bad place to be. My best learning experiences have been when I was certain something was bad and it turned out to be a strange variation - I don't mind those experiences or the small amount of embarrassment they cause.

I think having a great outlet like this has been helpful for myself all the squabbling aside I learn a lot on here.