PWCC and Bid Retractions
 

Didn't PWCC come on here and say they were policing their auctions and not allowing bidders with more than 25 bid retractions to bid. I mean that number is way to high if you ask me...policing it with their resources should be very simple. Thought they were working with ebay too...maybe wrong there.

Anyhow, I was checking some Mattingly Auctions tonight and saw a PWCC auction and naturally I wanted a laugh and got one. Check out the two i***i bidders. One with 49 bid retractions and one with 22. Since the one with 49 only bid once, I wonder what other auctions he is bidding on for PWCC...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Donruss...IAAOSw241Yl9A5

Email Brent the ebay ID and see what he says. They may not have noticed.

See, i have a problem with that. He's in business of making money and he should be protecting his investment. Not me. It is very easy for him to hire a data guy to data scrape his auctions for this. His policy -- 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are their vague policing strategy...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=229658

Are they not working with EBAY on this? Has EBAY put in code that does not allow those with over 25 bid retractions to bid on PWCC auctions? How do you stop last second (sniped) shilling with people with bid retractions greater than 25? So is there any policing whatsoever? Not even a data scraper. Based on auctions values that are ending, I would think PWCC is making enough cash. I couldn't imagine coming out with a policy like this in my profession and not being burned at the stake if i did not adequately implement and police it. In fact, i would have the regulators in my biz as soon as any of this non-sense started. I hate regulations, but maybe that's what this industry needs -- someone with some teeth...venting of course but come on.

Oh yeah, that post by Brent was just to make everyone feel better. You didn't actually think that policy, as well as others, would actually be implemented, did you? No consequences for his not following through on any enforcement or at least efforts to enforce policies that protect the buyers. He had 15,000 listings this month and very strong prices throughout. If I were Brent I would not change a thing. Seems to be working very very well for him.

It appears there is no automatic block, from what Brent said.

eBay wide, any user ID that has a high number of bid retractions on the eBay platform will be blocked from participating in PWCC auctions. We believe that the majority of users who abuse the bid retraction tool will cease this behavior. We have to establish a starting point, so to start any user ID we identify that has greater than 25 bid retractions over the last six months will be blocked from participating in PWCC auctions. Any user ID we identify with between 10 and 25 retractions will be notified of our policy and warned. In time, we plan to reduce the allowed number of retractions to 10, and perhaps as low as 5. Note: a user’s bid retraction count is not a statistic we can automatically filter; we appreciate the help of the collecting community in identifying user IDs which show quantities beyond our defined limits.

I'm pretty sure ebay allows people to have an unlimited number of accounts. Thus, if someone really, really, really, really, really, really, really wants to shill (ahem...I mean retract their bids), they'll figure out away around any supposed "restrictions"...

If you have a problem start your own business and do as you say. Problem solved.

Not as easy as it sounds :)

(I know you know that)

Good morning. PWCC "data girl" here! Thanks for the post. You are correct that we place blocks on all user IDs that we identify with more than 25 bid retractions in the last 6 months. There is indeed a bidder in the auction you note with more than 25 retractions. I have placed a block on this user ID and have reached out to him/her explaining our policy.

Please note that our policy has almost been in place for six months, which was the time frame we agreed to set the threshold at 25. Soon we will begin reducing the threshold because we feel the bidding community has had enough opportunity to improve their behavior.

As was noted by others in this post, our challenge is that eBay doesn't allow us to restrict bidding based on retraction history; in fact, we have to review each bidder to determine their total number of retractions. We catch many of the bidders with retraction history outside our policy, but we are limited by the tools provided to us by eBay. We greatly appreciate the assistance of many in the bidding community. Please continue to send concerns to either me at betsy@pwccauctions.com or our dedicated email address bidmonitoring@pwccauctions.com.

Finally, yes - eBay is indeed partnering with us in trying to curtail bid retractions. For the first retraction with PWCC, eBay sends a warning email describing the pilot project. The second retraction with PWCC, eBay places a bidding restriction where that user ID can't bid at all on eBay for 14 days. The third retraction results in that user ID being suspended from eBay indefinitely.

Please don't hesitate to reach out with any questions about or feedback on this policy or pilot program.

Thank you!

Betsy Huigens

They had said before they will monitor but there is no way for ebay to automatically block bidders with a certain number of retractions. Many members have no problem taking time to complain about problems in our hobby. Is it really too much to ask to send pwcc an email and help them block a dishonest bidder from their auctions?

At least they are trying to do something. Can anyone name 1 other eBay seller or consignment service that does anything to guard against shill bidding or people who retract bids? I cant.

Ha, if i were to sit down and send emails to PWCC about all of the shills and whatnot going on in their auctions, I wouldn't find time to eat, s**t or sleep. It's not my job to go onto ebay and police PWCC auctions, but when i do see some b.s. I will post it here. I avoid their auctions like no tomorrow unless i want a good laugh.

Are they doing something?? Anyone can say whatever they like, but action is where the beef is. There is no action on their side. None...unless they get caught or i mean someone calls something out. That's total b.s. If you come on here with some big mean policy that is supposed to comfort people into bidding on your auctions then try to be proactive and not reactive!

This might be one of the most stupid (or ignorant) posts I have seen on this board. You either didn't or can't comprehend post #9?

To PWCC- As someone who runs a forum with around 8000 users I will tell you that no matter what you do there will be some idiot who doesn't like it.. Keep doing what you are doing, please. Be vigilant. The hobby supports you...

I agree. PWCC has hundreds of auctions ending every night with quite a few different bidders in each one. There is no way that they can monitor each and every bidder. The eBay system has nothing to help do this. This is why they ask for people that see suspicious bidding to alert them. If you don't like the way them do this, don't bid. Don't come here and bitch and complain when you see something you don't like.
James

The high bidder on the Mike Trout refractor has 26 retractions. Found this in two minutes looking through the highest price auctions.

Bidder Information
Bidder: l***n( 128Feedback score is 100 to 499)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description:
Item Title:
2009 Bowman Chrome Gold Refractor Mike Trout ROOKIE RC AUTO /50 BGS 9.5 (PWCC)
Bids on this item: 1

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 4
Items bid on: 3
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 50% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 26

Sure it's not realistic to monitor every auction. But at the same time it would not take that much effort to check the most expensive auctions or to do a reasonably thorough spot check. Imagine if Ford said, we produce thousands of cars, we can't possibly do quality control. In my opinion if you are serious about a policy, you need to put in some time and effort to enforce it, not just sit back passively and react if someone calls something to your attention.

The consignors are the one's that would effectuate change with the help from the buyers. If more people didnt bid on 'shilled' aucitions then the consignors may be dissatisfied with the prices realized which in turn may reduce consignments which in turn may promote policy changes. As long as legit people keep bidding and winning on 'shilled' auctions it will go on. The bidders are to blame period.

Please add 'alleged' before every 'shilled'


In addition, If you win an auction due to the guy above you retracting, i am pretty sure the seller will understand and agree 100% that you can cancel your purchase as well. That would frustrate consignors.

I agree the high bidder should be blocked and his bid retracted. 26 retractions in 6 months....the guy should be in jail (almost serious).. :)

So why am I finding it and not PWCC? Even five minutes of due diligence would have uncovered it. I can only wonder how many I would turn up if I took an hour.

Leon, apparently you don't know anything about data scrapping. PWCC could easily hire a programmer that could data scrape their auctions to know who is bidding. The programmer would create a program to do this. It really is that easy and in my opinion, PWCC owes it to their real bidders.

Not to mention, as previously posted, it takes all of 5 minutes to catch this manually too. There simply is no due diligence. Why did PWCC even come up with the "policy" if they don't even try to monitor their auctions.

Good Day!

It's called "public relations" aka lying.

I guess when you're that successful you don't need to worry too much about a few skeptics.

Not in this hobby. You can be the biggest scumbag ever and the sheeple will line up in droves to buy a baseball card from you if they think they can save a penny. It is a fact that is proven on a daily basis.

They may even pay more for that fast shipping. :D (good natured dig at Steve N.)

Historically, our process for identifying bidders with a high number of bid retractions has been to 1) investigate bidders who retract a bid on our auctions, and 2) spot check bidders on a range of items we have for sale. We have a database of almost 4000 instances of a bid retraction, a bidder with a high number of retractions, string bidding, and unpaid items. We have over 2000 user IDs blocked.

It is true that there is significant opportunity to improve our practices, and we have taken the necessary steps to take our monitoring to the next level.

First, we hired a full-time customer service and bid monitoring representative. Her job is to promptly answer email, phone calls, and review bid activity on our auctions. She takes action on all notifications of bid retractions that we receive from eBay real time as well as spot checks our listings for bidders with a high number of bid retractions, zero-feedback bidders, and low-feedback bidders. I am also assisting in this process. She started working with PWCC in the second week of January and is now fully engaged in her role in monitoring auctions.

Second, we hired a full-time web developer. He is responsible for managing and optimizing our website, which has a significant role in our operations. Some of you may have noticed recent updates to our Client Portal. He is currently exploring the information provided through eBay's API and has the task of identifying a way to automate our bid monitoring procedures. We are hopeful that he can take the human component out of bid monitoring - or at least help us do our job better.

As always, thank you for the feedback!

Betsy Huigens

I've never had one bid retraction on any item for sale, and probably only have retracted a handful in my ebay 10 year term.

Just a microcosm of the real world of shill free ebay

I would suggest your employee prioritize the highest value auctions which is where the most suspicious activity, or at least the most impactful, is going to occur. I found the Trout 26 retraction bidder in about two minutes, as I said.

It would be great if PWCC hammer prices were left out of VCP ....

By, this "new employee", are you Betsy Huigens referring to quitting your job at the Portland Airport to go to work for Brent and having the bedside manner of a pine cone.....generating hundreds of conplaints in 6 short weeks? As for bid retractions, and shill bidding, is that really an avenue you guys want to go down? B/C, Im ready when yall are. ;-) Cue the screenshots between your "wonderful" husband (the one who bought the 36 Dimaggi and sold it to me) and myself. This forum would absolutely love to see what I have saved from conversations that he and I had over the last 5 yrs and roughly 30m in transactions. Also, the message where YOU unfriended me on Facebook bc Im a Conservative and youre a Left Wing Radical Liberal with highly left family members. You remember the question....... "To all my friends, I challenge you to read an article from a reputable source that is against your political views, then comment." Shall we begin Betsy/Brent?

Really, Betsy?

I can go back 5 yrs with this darlin. This is simply 1 week old.

If you are going to post proof at least post it large enough we can actually see it.

Well, once i figure out how to blow it up i will. I can blow up the attachments on my phone in the post and read them.

I think this is a new one. Where i tried to pay them $59,310 and brent marked the items paid so i couldnt pay and refuses to send an invoice.

No, here's the one where ive been trying to pay and Brent refuses to invoice.

Come on Betsy, keep up the slander and lible. Ive got proof and ive got attorneys. How far do you really wanna take this. Do you want them to see the shill requests on other 50k+ cards? If so, let me know which ones. You're not prepared for this fight. Ive been preparing this for months. So, please, enlighten me on any proven wrongdoing that Ive done.......you know, more than words. Like you, Im an engineer, but the difference is, I have facts, you have.........????????

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-B...-/142273543691

Took 1 minute to find this one. Bidder T***E has 46 bid retractions. 8th item down on your ending soonest auctions. Of his/her 420 bids, 20% are with PWCC. He/she has 1 bid in this auction so that's roughly 80 bids on other PWCC items. Maybe you should hire a programmer and not a web developer... Not to mention, almost every bidder in this auction has bid retractions. I have 1 in approximately 19 years on ebay. Let's forget about the shills that happen in your auctions, which i have clearly pointed out in other posts before (with your cosigners bidding on auctions as you admitted). What i'm concerned with here is your policy that your flaunted around on many forums, but have seriously failed to police. Why even come out with such a policy if you can't or will not do anything to monitor it?

The policy you came out with is not very reassuring, but your lack of trying to enforce it is pathetic. And please, i do not want to hear how you have done more than others. That does not make it right.

I do want to ask you a question though. When you do determine someone is shilling your auctions, do you turn in the illegal activity to authorities?

But let's all step back and see what you have reassured your customers:

Let me quote your webpage:

https://www.pwccauctions.com/pwcc-for-buyers

"Auction Integrity
No Shill
The integrity of bidding on our auctions is our highest priority. The sportscard hobby hinges on the honesty and integrity of the seller, and collectors deserve a bidding environment that is 100% legitimate and uninfluenced by manipulation such as fraudulent bidding by the auction house, consignors, friends of consignors, friends of the auction house, or anyone else who participates insincerely with the sole intention of manipulating the sale price."

Now, that is the perfect example of where your actions speak much louder than your words.

Smoke and mirrors. Tell the people what they want to hear, nothing more.

Nice string bidding here, stopped right short of the top.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

Member Id: a***p( 1467Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) US $26,400.00
Feb-17-17 06:32:19 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $26,300.00
Feb-17-17 17:08:06 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $26,000.00
Feb-17-17 17:05:01 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $25,800.00
Feb-17-17 16:57:20 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $25,500.00
Feb-17-17 16:55:35 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $25,200.00
Feb-17-17 16:55:19 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $24,600.00
Feb-17-17 16:55:05 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $24,000.00
Feb-17-17 16:55:02 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $23,700.00
Feb-17-17 16:54:59 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $23,400.00
Feb-17-17 16:54:32 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $22,800.00
Feb-17-17 16:54:29 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $22,200.00
Feb-17-17 16:54:26 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $21,600.00
Feb-17-17 16:54:23 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $21,000.00
Feb-17-17 16:54:20 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $20,400.00
Feb-17-17 16:54:17 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $19,800.00
Feb-17-17 16:54:15 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $19,200.00
Feb-17-17 16:54:11 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $18,600.00
Feb-17-17 16:54:09 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $18,000.00
Feb-17-17 16:53:19 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $17,400.00
Feb-17-17 16:53:14 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $16,800.00
Feb-17-17 16:53:11 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $16,200.00
Feb-17-17 16:53:06 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $15,600.00
Feb-17-17 16:53:02 PST

Member Id: 2***n( 678Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $15,000.00
Feb-17-17 16:52:56 PST

Member Id: g***a( 149Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $14,400.00
Feb-17-17 12:13:13 PST

Member Id: i***w( 565Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $14,200.00
Feb-17-17 06:41:03 PST

Member Id: s***l( 5276Feedback score is 5,000 to 9,999) US $14,000.00
Feb-17-17 05:23:53 PST

Member Id: r***o( 538Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $11,700.00
Feb-17-17 05:27:23 PST

Member Id: b***s( 657Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $11,500.00
Feb-17-17 05:10:07 PST

Member Id: n***z( 173Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $11,400.00
Feb-17-17 04:30:40 PST

Member Id: 8***y( 6 ) US $11,300.00
Feb-17-17 04:09:31 PST

Member Id: 1***j( 583Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $11,200.00
Feb-17-17 03:49:00 PST

Member Id: 0***0( 1441Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) US $11,111.00
Feb-17-17 01:21:40 PST

Member Id: o***2( 2121Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) US $11,000.00
Feb-17-17 03:42:28 PST

Member Id: t***o( 123Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $10,800.00
Feb-17-17 02:57:37 PST

Member Id: b***s( 2054Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) US $10,500.00
Feb-16-17 23:56:26 PST

Member Id: s***l( 5276Feedback score is 5,000 to 9,999) US $10,000.00
Feb-16-17 21:45:03 PST

Member Id: b***s( 2054Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) US $10,000.00
Feb-16-17 23:56:22 PST

Member Id: g***n( 2262Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) US $7,500.00
Feb-16-17 22:59:08 PST

Member Id: _***a( 1247Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) US $7,200.00
Feb-16-17 22:41:02 PST

Member Id: e***g( 1307Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) US $7,000.00
Feb-16-17 21:19:10 PST

Member Id: 8***8( 930Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $5,200.00
Feb-16-17 21:24:28 PST

Member Id: 8***8( 930Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $3,500.00
Feb-16-17 21:24:16 PST

Member Id: b***l( 586Feedback score is 500 to 999) US $100.00
Feb-16-17 21:20:29 PST

Member Id: g***c( 29Feedback score is 10 to 49) US $40.00
Feb-16-17 21:16:47 PST

Starting Price US $0.99
Feb-16-17 21:10:01 PST

Could someone please provide directions on where to find retracted bids?

I've done it a few times over the years and want to know where I stand.


Thanks,
Raymond



.

I tried to look at my own and it's not visible to me. Send me an auction you've bid on and I'll look it up for you.

In order to see your own bid retractions you need to log out of eBay and look at the bid history of an item that you bid on. Click on your encrypted user name to see.
James

That bidder is the 11th one down. Did he really affect the sale? That being said he should be in jail. :)

A big PLUS 1 there! My experiences with PWCC have all been great!

Best regards, Leon,

Larry

Leon, as a Mod aren't you supposed to be giving people (you know, the average collector types) a pass? It is important that anyone be able to express their concerns about a hobby issue as it relates to all of us and sometimes things just need to be said. If not then the forum becomes a place where truth can never find its way as long as those that are doing wrong keep the lights on as sponsors...