Ode to Pre-War Football Cardboard
 

I know there aren't a massive amount of pre-war football collectors out there. Sometimes this is because collectors don't actually know what is available to collect! I've even had conversation with football card dealers who are not aware of all of the pre-war items that are out there and available.

I thought it would be interesting to start a thread to show pre-war sets and items. As I like the history and people stories behind the cards, I'll try to add in a few interesting tidbits about the players and sets they are included in.

Let me start off with the first football card ever produced:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...50210_0003.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...50210_0002.jpg

Harry Beecher is the only football card in the 1888 Goodwin Champions set. He was the captain of the undefeated Yale Bulldogs of 1887 and rushed for 66 touchdowns in his three years of college ball.

Beecher was the grandson of Rev. Harry Ward Beecher who was a popular pastor, lecturer, and anti-slavery activist during the 1800s. Rev. Beecher's sister was author Harriet Beecher Stowe, who wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin.

The football playing Beecher went on to become a sports writer, insurance agent, and retail company executive until he retired and became a farmer at 60 years of age. He lived to be 81 and died in Chicago near where his daughter lived.

Please jump in and add your own pre-war items when you can!

jeff

Great idea for a thread. I currently don't have anything to add, but I hope others will jump in with some real gems like that Beecher!

awesome card. and neat piece of history.

1928 Star Player Candyhttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...c865c7d567.jpg

Includes many interesting cards including Paddy Driscoll HOF rookie,
Red Grange, and Joe Sternamann cofounder of the Bears. A challenge to find and complete.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

1931 Walker's Cleaners Packers

Celebrates the three time Packer champions. Local Green Bay regional issuehttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...5414e7dc77.jpg

Includes many HOFers none more famous than Curly Lambeau


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I've always loved your Star Player Candy set, Carl! For those not familiar with the set, these cards are EXTREMELY hard to find. Known total population for each card is less than five. They were originally called "Anonymous Candy" because nobody knew who made them. There is a baseball set of these as well that you will see more often. A while back there was a find of a complete box of these with cards still in the wrappers. I believe they were all baseball but the box promoted them as Star Player Candy and was from Dockman, Inc. out of Baltimore. Dockman, of course, is known for other baseball card sets as well.

Here are a few of the stars that I have but Carl has the motherlode!

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40130_0006.jpg
George "Wildcat" Wilson was an All-American halfback at the University of Washington. After graduation, he was enticed by Red Grange to play in Grange's new AFL league Grange was starting with his manager, CC Pyle. Wilson was the star of the Los Angeles Wildcats until the league folded. Wilson then played for three years with the Providence Steam Roller, helping them win the NFL Championship in 1928.

Here is a photo of the Steam Roller championship team:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40316_0004.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40130_0004.jpg

Eddie Tryon was an All-American halfback at Colgate before playing in the NFL for the New York Football Yankees for one year. He was named 2nd team All-Pro that year before moving on to other endeavors.

SGC designates the year 1925 for Star Player Candy cards but this is believed to be incorrect based upon the fact that some of the players in the set did not play for the organization mentioned on their card until later years. PSA designates the year 1928 which is more likely when these cards were distributed but nobody is certain of this.

As Carl mentions, the Grange and Driscoll are highlights of the set. So are Sternamann and Benny Friedman. The Grange is probably the rarest of all of the Grange cards that exist.

jeff

Great Thread!!
 

Here is my modest entry, 1935 National Chicle, Bronislau "Bronko" Nagurski!

I know its legend, but I love this story!!



Nagurski was discovered and signed by University of Minnesota head coach Clarence Spears, who drove up to International Falls and arriving watched Nagurski out plowing a field. According to legend Spears asked directions to the nearest town, and Bronko lifted his plow and used it to point in the direction of town. He was signed on the spot to play for the Golden Gophers. Spears admitted he concocted the story on his long drive back to the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis.

Jeff, were you thinking WWI or WWII?

Good point. Should have been more specific. Usually in cards when people say "Pre-war" and don't specify, they are talking about Pre-WWII.

jeff

Thanks Jeff - I have Chicles then, but I've posted most of those elsewhere. I don't have anything else. I don't think we've seen any Mayo Cut plug yet. I do see a Shotwell Grange in Carl's post.

Also, here is something I can squeeze into this thread given the year - there is no card of any 1925 Potsville Maroons player is there? Maybe in that Star Player Candy set?

We're getting there, John, we're getting there. Much more to come on all of these fronts but trying not to post everything on the planet and have this thread stop quickly. Let's keep it rolling every day!

Are you a Pottsville Maroons fan? If so, I have a LOT of Pottsville stuff as it's become an area of concentration for my collection.

jeff

Hey Jeff - thanks for asking about my interest in the Maroons - its been something I've been digging around about recently. The 1920s All-Decade team only lists a single FB - Ernie Nevers - not a bad player :). But, it's recently come to my attention that there was another pretty good fullback at that time. A 1987 Coffin Corner article documents Tony Latone's story - it's fascinating and several aspects are right up my alley - a forgotten star, a running back, possibly leading rusher of the 20s, the disputed 25 championship, the PA connection, etc.

+1

In my opinion, Tony Latone should be in the Hall of Fame. Period. End of story. More rushing yards in his career than Grange and many fewer carries. I believe he has not been given as much consideration for the Hall as others because he was a coal miner who played football on the side and never went to college.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...925maroons.jpg
Team photo from 1925

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...lldogs1929.jpg
1929 Boston Bulldogs. The Maroons moved to Boston after the 1928 season and played there as the Bulldogs for one year before folding. Tony Latone is second from the left in the top row.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...%20Reunion.JPG
Maroons at a '60s team reunion. Latone is top row, far right.

jeff

Awesome! Thanks Jeff. Very nice items. And thanks for providing some additional info on Latone.

Its so interesting the difference between remembered and forgotten sometimes. Could it also be because Nevers overshadowed Latone? Sometimes with all-decade or anniversary teams, etc., maybe the energy isn't spent to look at another fullback from 90 years ago. Not saying its right. I'm glad he's mentioned here. Its definitely an aspect of collecting I enjoy to remember some of these forgotten players and try to bring up their names when I can - he'd have my HOF vote.

Question - I'm always looking for a Chicle connection - is George Kenneally in the Bulldogs team photo?

Finally, didn't want to hijack the thread - I'd love to see more of the star player candy set.

I could go all day on Pottsville perhaps a separate thread on the Maroons (and other related teams from Pottsville!) would be good at some point.

Kenneally is holding the football in the Bulldogs picture. He is also second from the right kneeling down in the reunion picture.

I have a copy of the agreement Kenneally and other players signed with Doc Striegel to "own" the team for a year and then have the right to purchase it outright (if I remember correctly). I'll have to find it to see exactly what the terms were.

jeff

Thanks Jeff. Happy to learn Kenneally is in those photos although I believe he missed playing on the famous 25 team by one year. Definitely agree on getting a Maroons thread going at some point.

Carl or others are gonna have to show you the other Stars in the set. The rest of the ones I have are commons.

I can show some of the stars in the other set Carl showed in a pile: Packers Walkers Cleaners. Some of these players have no other cardboard images so they are pretty cool!

Packers Walkers Cleaners were premium photos of the Green Bay Packers to commemorate their three consecutive NFL Championships from 1929 - 1931. The marketing information says they were distributed by Walkers Cleaners in Green Bay Wisconsin and that if you collected the entire set of 27, they would give you an album to put them in. There are so few singles available as compared to complete sets that some believe the were only distributed as complete sets in the end.

Here is what the front cover of the album looks like:
http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...50205_0002.jpg

As distributed, these premiums had a white tab attached to the upper left corner that introduces the player and the set. They also have hole punches on the left side so they can be put in the album.
http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40824_0002.jpg

Some collectors removed the white tabs so you could see the entire picture. Premiums without tabs are worth significantly less (50%-60% of full value).

I have most of the premiums but quite a few are trimmed down to the size of a picture and look like they were once taped up to a wall by a collector. Here are some of the stars:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...50205_0024.jpg
Arnie Herber played for his hometown Green Bay Packers for 11 seasons, winning four NFL Championships and being selected first or second team All-Pro 3 times. He led the league in passing several times and, along with Don Hutson, rewrote the NFL passing record book before retiring. Besides being in the PWC set, Herber is depicted on a 1933 Diamond Matchbook cover. He is a member of the 1930s All-Decade Team and was elected to the Pro Football HOF in 1966.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...50205_0023.jpg
Cal Hubbard also has a 1933 Diamond Matchbook. He is best known as the only player inducted into both the Pro Football and Baseball Hall of Fame's. Hubbard is also in the College Football Hall of Fame, a member of the 1920s All-Decade Team, NFL's 50th Anniversary Team, NFL's 75th Anniversary Team.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...50205_0022.jpg
Johnny "Blood" McNally was quite a character. His off field antics are legendary while playing RB in the NFL from 1925 until 1938 before turning to coaching. He is also depicted on a 1934 Diamond Matchbook cover. Johnny Blood, as he often went by, is a member of the 1930s All-Decade Team and was elected to the Pro Football HOF in 1963. He is also know for scoring the last touchdown in franchise history for the Pottsville Maroons.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...50205_0020.jpg
Mike Michalske was an All-American Fullback at Penn State before playing in the AFL and then NFL for the New York Football Yankees and Green Bay Packers. He convinced Lambeau to move him to the line and became the first guard elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1964. Michalske was a 6x All-Pro and won three consecutive NFL Championships with the Packers in 1929, 1930, 1931.

jeff

Jeff, those are great. I remember back in the early 70's as a kid, my brother and I used to read about the early days of the NFL and our 2 favorite players from the early years were Bronko Nagurski and Johnny "Blood" Mcnally. Thanks for posting.

Mike

Jesus Carl, this is a drop the microphone kind of picture! Simply incredible, one of my favorite, hardest to find sets

Some more Packers stuff.....
 

1930 Stiller and 1936 Wheaties - both with several HOFers!

Angyale

+1000 Joe.

I love this set and Carl is DA MAN.

jeff

Jeff, great showing on those Packers stars! Did you wind up picking it up as a set since the singles don't come up much? I'm pretty sure I read the theory that they were actually distributed as entire sets in Gridiron Greats as well.

I picked up a lot that appears to have come from two separate collectors. I'm still missing a few from the set.

jeff

The 1894 Mayo Football Set is the only football tobacco set that exists. It consists of players from Yale, Harvard, and Princeton and includes quite a few college stars from the early to mid 1890s.

Here are a few of my favorites.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40130_0031.jpg
Frank Hinkey is one of only a handful of players to be named a 4x All-American. Hinkey, who only weighted 145 pounds, was such a vicious tackler that Walter Camp dubbed him the "disembodied spirit" as he seemed to drift effortlessly through opposing blockers and deliver ferocious hits on ball carriers. Hinkey was a two time captain and led Yale to three College Championships in his four years of football.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40130_0040.jpg
Neilsen "Net" Poe was one of six Poe brothers who played football at Princeton in the 1880s - 1890s. Neilsen's grandfather, also named Neilsen, was Edgar Allan Poe's cousin.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40130_0045.jpg
Thomas "Doggie" Trenchard played football at Princeton and was an All-American in 1893. He was an early professional football player, playing for the Latrobe Athletic Association and Allegheny Athletic Association from 1895 - 1898. He coached football off and on for 20 years at colleges including North Carolina, West Virginia, and Washington & Lee.

jeff

I'm waiting patiently for someone to show off a collection of Gridiron Greats blotters...

Doesn't seem to be a lot of this stuff out there

You will not find a lot of pre-war items at most card shows. Some of the bigger ones attract a few dealers that specialize in vintage football and they may have some nice stuff. Most baseball dealers don't even know what exists pre-war other than perhaps Chicles and Mayos. There's always great stuff at the National. Also a lot of nice things in some of the on-line auctions including ebay.

The Packer's Walkers Cleaners are a regional set. Most of the other items shown so far were distributed on a wider scale but how wide is subject to debate (much like pre-war baseball).

There's plenty of stuff out there to explore / discover, though. You just need to take the time to learn about it and know what to look for. That's part of the fun for me!

jeff

Well, I don't have THE collection but this might do for now.

Ink blotting paper was used to blot off excess ink from documents being written with a fountain pen. A blotting paper sheet typically had absorbent material on one side and advertisements on the other. Ink blotting paper was attached to a device called an Ink Blotter that would allow the author to rock the blotting paper over a document to blot off the excess ink. For whatever reason, ink blotting paper is often called an Ink Blotter as well which can be confusing.

Many football Ink Blotters (actually ink blotter paper) exist but around 1937, a set of 12 ink blotters of famous football players was produced. They can be found with and without advertisements on them and in three different sizes: small, medium, large plus on a calendar. Here are a few I have with and without advertising on them.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...rangeink2.jpeg
Red Grange

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40803_0001.jpg
Tom Shevlin

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40803_0008.jpg
Walter Eckersall

Here are a couple of other ones from the 1950s

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...r51Blotter.JPG
25 Year All-American Team

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...inkblotter.jpg
Bronko Nagurski

jeff

Ok, I guess the ink blotters weren't a hit. Let's go in a different direction.

In 1926 Red Grange starred in a movie called "On Minute to Play". It was sponsored by a Candy Company called Shotwell Mfg. and they produced two sets of Grange cards that were distributed with a Red Grange candy bar they created. The first is a 24 card set that depicts scenes from the movie. They are blank backed so often called the "Blank Back" set. The second is a 12 card set that depicts Red Grange in his football uniform. They have an advertisement on the back so often are called the "Ad Back" set.

A few blank backs:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40127_0098.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...0127_01011.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40127_0110.jpg

A few ad backs:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40127_0075.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40127_0076.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40127_0087.jpg

I haven't seen the signed photo or the album that were available from Shotwell as mentioned in the ad on the back of the cards. Maybe somebody on Net54 has these and could show them.

Here is the Red Grange candy bar wrapper.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...ellwrapper.JPG

There are at least three known versions of the Shotwell Red Grange wrapper.

You will also sometimes see empty Red Grange candy bar boxes up for sale as well.

jeff

The Blotters look Pristine. What do you store them and the Wrapper in? if i may ask

In the bank! :o

Also in large top loaders ... I think that's what you were asking.

jeff

Yes sir. The '76 Crane Discs are probably the only thing i have odd sized. i've been trying to figure out what to store them in besides just a plastic sleeve. I don't have anything i'd deem bank worthy... Now that brings up another thought about insurance.

Everything about those blotters is a hit! Thanks for posting them.

Jeff - There are 13 different Shotwell Ad. Backs


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oops, my bad. Thanks for reminding me, Carl.

There ARE 12 Shotwell's but one of them has a variation. The original image on #9 showed Grange in his Bears uniform and it is believed that the Bears and/or the NFL objected to this so the image was changed. Is that your understanding of what happened, Carl?

jeff

Yes, but time to give the post more umps[
IMG]http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/17/5bf525a6606f06413b9fe64cd98df3f0.jpg[/IMG]http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...b19a49d1df.jpg

Have you seen BOTH Spanish Granges. ...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...1cac4ae6bf.jpg




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ode to Pre-War Football Cardboard
 

Speaking of Pottsville http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...2fc92268af.jpg

I can't get a SGC 96 on a 50s card, Randy Stuckemeyer had a great eye


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

GG notebook ... Win one for the Gipperhttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...ce894bb5a6.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...18f977ade8.jpg



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Great stuff as always, Carl! I have seen both Spanish Grange's but haven't yet been able to snag the Vidal one. I took a run at one a while back but came up short.

Your Lafayette set is a killer! Have you every seen another one of these cards anywhere?

I forgot about the GG notebooks. Is this the larger size that I mentioned or another size completely? I can't recall.

Saw a GG Nagurski calendar about 3-4 years ago at a show and for whatever reason, didn't snag it. Will probably never see another one.

jeff

AJ Firestone told me he has seen a few over the years being from that area. They are really tough. It seems anything that is blank-backed or not readily identified on the front or back is a real treasure hunt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The notebooks page is larger than the calendar. I paid full price when I bought them but happy now that I did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can't talk about 1920s football cards without covering the iconic Spalding/Sports Co. of America set.

The football set is actually a subset of a much larger multi-sport set produced by the AG Spalding company to promote their products. I believe these cards were distributed along with a scrip that could be used as $$$ to buy Spalding products and equipment. There is a lot more info on this set in Carl's iconic football card book: "Collecting Vintage Football Cards". Anybody collecting vintage football NEEDS this book by the way as it's very comprehensive.

If you go out to ebay you will see a BUNCH of cards from this set available but not many of the football ones. In general they are very difficult to find and some are virtually impossible. There are 14 football cards in the set plus a promotional Red Grange card that was only distributed in an uncut salesman's sample so it is very rare. The cards come with three different backs: blank back, ad back, and bio/stats back with ad backs being the rarest. Besides being distributed in 1926, there are versions that have a 1927 copyright on them as well. This is considered a separate set even though the cards are all the same. The 1927 copyright cards are even more difficult to find.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...ullerfront.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...mullerback.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...pischfront.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...ppischback.jpg

For many of the stars in this set, their cards pre-date their official rookie cards by years if not decades. I've personally never understood the reasoning behind not designating someone's first card as their rookie card but I suspect it was done through a combination of ignorance about earlier sets, the belief that a rookie card must be nationally distributed by a major set producer, and the TPGs wanting to drive demand for rookie and HOF registry sets by choosing cards with higher populations.

Pre-rookies of note in this set include: Red Grange, Ernie Nevers, Benny Friedman, Harry Stuldreher. All are the first cards ever produced for these players except Grange as it is likely his Shotwell cards and his W590 strip card came earlier.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...man26front.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...tuhldreher.jpg

jeff

Whole Strip
 

Jeff do you have or have you seen a salesman sample in a full strip, with the grange?? Awesome cards, thanks for the history lesson I had no idea about all the prewar football out there!! I am going to order the book as well.

Thanks Tucker

I'm enjoying the cards, but I feel like the kid who wasn't picked for the kickball game. I've got nothing!
:)Larry

I believe a few uncut sheets have come up for sale during the past 10 years but haven't seen one in a looooong time. I know several of these were cut up and the individual cards were sold which is something I'm not a big fan of doing.

Preserve history, don't destroy it!

jeff

Wheaties has been featuring athletes on its boxes for decades. In the mid 1930s, they created several sets of football players that could be cut off Wheaties boxes and collected. Here are a few of the stars and HOFers.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...41029_0005.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...35Wheaties.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...man35fancy.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...erWheaties.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...50221_0012.jpg

jeff

Speaking of cereal sets, in 1937 Kellogg's distributed multi-sport stamps inside Pep brand cereal boxes. They came in four-stamp blocks and 24 different blocks were produced with 90 different athletes included (6 players are double prints and appear on two blocks). You will see these stamps for sale in both block and individual stamp forms as the stamps were perforated and meant to be separated and put in an album.

Football stars in this set include Grange, Nevers, Thorpe, Nagurski.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40227_0002.jpg
William Shakespear

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...nge37front.jpg
Red Grange

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40227_0003.jpg
Howard Jones

jeff

That Wayne Milner panel is a bear to obtain


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have seen 1925, 1926, and 1927 Sport Company of America


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A break for Jeff and Carl's scanners
 

These items aren't from catalogued sets, but I think they still have a place in this thread. These pieces are all from the estate of Geoffrey Keyes who was a quarterback at West Point and went on to become a high-ranking commander during WWII.

The first pic is Keyes in 1909 the and the second is the kickoff of the 1910 Army-Navy game.

The third piece is a scorecard from the 1909 Army-Harvard game. Army's Eugene Byrne suffered a fatal neck injury that led to his death a day later.

They absolutely do, Peter! There are many, many early pro and college stars that don't have cards but have super looking cabinets and vintage photos. Here are a few I have:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...bsize/Poe.jpeg
Edgar Allan Poe - This 1889 All-American in football was named after his grandfather's cousin ... the famous poet. His brother is in the Mayo football set.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...ves%201889.jpg
William P. Graves - Yale football player who was an early football coach of the University of North Carolina.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall.../Sternaman.jpg
Dutch Sternaman - Co-founder of the Chicago Bears along with George Halas

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...eston1903.jpeg
Willie Heston - Michigan All-American who was an early 1900s pro player. He is in the 1955 Topps AA football card set.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...910thorpe.jpeg
1912 Jim Thorpe with backfield mates Arcasas, Welch, Powell.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...%20Runner.jpeg
Thorpe making a tackle for the Canton Bulldogs.

jeff

One of my favorite pre-war players is Ken Strong. He was a 4x First Team All-Pro and 1x Second Team All-Pro halfback. He is most famous for scoring 17 points in the infamous "sneaker game" in 1934 when the NY Giants defeated the Chicago Bears for the NFL Championship while wearing sneakers because the field was icy. Strong is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Most football collectors know his 1955 Topps AA card but nothing more. Here are some of the others cards / items for Strong.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40130_0003.jpg
Ultra rare card of Strong from the multi-sport Rogers Peet set. This card is from his days with the Staten Island Stapletons, a now defunct NFL team.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...strongw560.JPG
1927 W560 playing card of Ken Strong while at NYU

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40130_0051.jpg
1934 Diamond Matchbook of Ken Strong

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...NYU%201926.JPG
Team photo of NYU football team. Strong second from left in top row.

jeff

Wow - great Ken Strong items! A Staten Island Stapletons football card - I had no idea that existed.

Thanks John! The Rogers Peet cards in general are difficult to find. There are four football cards in the set. The Grange is the biggie with Strong #2.

While it's not pre-war, should have posted this baby with my Ken Strong stuff.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...rongAAauto.jpg

jeff

Thanks Jeff. Aren't you forgetting the most obvious Strong card? :) Let me know if you need me to post it.

Just wanna thank everyone for posting these pre-war football items. They are all fabulous. It's these types of items that keep me scouring the antique shops, hoping to score something relatively unknown.

+1

There is a lot of pre-war stuff out there if you hunt for it. Some of it is really cool. One of my collection "subsets" is what I call the "football players in another sport" subset. Here are some examples I have.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...41118_0002.jpg
George Halas playing for the NY Yankees briefly in 1919. Unfortunately for him but fortunately for football fans, he hurt his hip and felt his baseball career was over so he switched to football.


http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...at%20Yale.jpeg
Walter Camp not only played football but also baseball at Yale. He is the tall fellow in the hat in the back.


http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall.../Image_004.jpg
I've shown this one before but it fits here. John Heisman as a baseball coach at Buchtel (now called University of Akron).


http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...wrestling.jpeg
Nagurski in his wrestling uniform but a football stance. I believe Nags is the only person in both the Pro Football and Pro Wrestling HOF.


http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...ize/greasy.jpg
Football HOFer Greasy Neale


http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...a%20Brown.jpeg
Ernie Nevers with the St. Louis Browns MLB team.


http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...0baseball.jpeg
Football HOFer Benny Friedman playing 3rd base for U of Michigan

jeff

Great stuff! Neale's career is a like a thread that runs through 2 of my favorite pieces of history. He coached Glenn Presnell with the Ironton Tanks who later folded, but had some key players picked up by the Spartans and then later coached the 47-49 Eagles who appeared in 3 title games led by the great Steve Van Buren.

Halas played baseball? That's crazy - I didn't know that. Is that some kind of hand cut card? How rare are those?

Ironton Tanks! Now that's how you name a football team.

That's an old photo. Occasionally you will see photos with fancy edging like this one has. It was done like that on purpose and isn't hand cut.

jeff

A few other miscellaneous items from the '30s.

In 1937, Donut Corp put out a series that I believe was on the side or bottom of their Donut boxes. It has famous athletes including two football players: Red Grange and Knute Rockne:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...41028_0001.jpg
Donut Corp. Thrilling Moments Series - Red Grange

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...ckneDonuts.jpg
Donut Corp. Thrilling Moments Series - Knute Rockne


Also in 1937, Dixie Cup put out a series of dixie cup ice cream lids with sports figures on them. Two are football players: Bronko Nagurski and Sammy Baugh. There are also premiums of these players that you could acquire and put in an album.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...scupfront.jpeg
Bronko Nagurski Dixie Lid

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...40405_0012.jpg
Sammy Baugh Dixie Lid


Finally, Denby Cigar put out a premium of the world champion Chicago Bears in 1932:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...y32premium.jpg

The back has a letter to pro football fans:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...enby32back.jpg

Here is a companion piece to this premium and letter:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...bycigarbox.jpg

jeff

Rocking it Jeff!

We'll I was getting bored so I decided to start building the '26 Stat backs.

Great additions, Carl! Where are you on the master set of these cards across blank, ad, and bio backs?

jeff

I think 23 ... Probably won't chase the blank backs. I believe there are 1925(2), 1926 Ad(14), 1926 Stat(14), 1926 Blank(14), 1927 stat(3 known), and Red Grange(3 known)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Carl. What are the known 1925s and 1927s?

jeff

Not too much, I have relayed what I have actually seen. The 25s were blank backed and the 27s where a recent discovery with a copyright date difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How do you know the 25s are actually from 1925 if the backs are blank? Which players are known to have 1927 copyrights?

jeff

1927s are on the SGC card registry


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There are two 25s (non-fb) without blank backs and a letter asking one of the guys for permission to use his image. The letter was dated 1925.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ah, ok. So no know football ones from 1925. Sounds like these are pre-production samples to get players to agree to allow use of their image.

jeff

Thanks Carl - I definitely have an appreciation for the Berry and Ernst cards now. I'm about halfway through the book: http://www.amazon.com/Breaker-Boys-G.../dp/1933060352

Interestingly, Berry's wikipedia page shows a Goudey baseball card: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Berry

Benny Friedman & 1926 Spalding Champion set
 

I was looking for something new to read and stumbled on Benny Friedman’s biography written by Murray Greenberg. It was great - I highly recommend it. I thought Sammy Baugh was the first great forward passer, so this was definitely an eyeopener for me. The book had lots of great Big Ten and NFL history in there too. Of course, it was from the perspective of Friedman’s career, but you definitely got a feel for who the other great teams and players were at the time. Heck, even the Ironton Tanks were mentioned. From the Chicle set alone, I recall the following players mentioned: Molenda (Friedman's Michigan teammate), Clark, Kenneally, Presnell, Strong, Rockne (coached famous 1930 game against Giants to raise money for unemployment relief during the depression (Giants won 22-0!)), Battles, Edwards, Kelly, Hinkle, Burnett, Nagurski, Masterson (maybe), Hap Moran (matchbooks).

And from a trivia perspective - who knew Red Grange had a brother who played for the Bears? Not me.

Back in post #43, Jeff did a great write up on the Spalding set, but I think it’s really interesting that most (all?) of the population of cards can be traced to relatively recent finds (90 and 96?)

Here is a circa 2005 net54 thread where at least one collector was a little skeptical because the finds were so recent. Are collectors mostly ok with that now?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...t=78201&page=2

I'm guessing I may not be alone, but when I looked over the checklist, I didn't recognize many names. College football was way more popular than the fledgling NFL so it wasn't surprising that for:

PEGGY FLOURNOY, ED GARBISCH, HOMER HAZEL, and SWEDE OBERLANDER

I didn't find any NFL record.

Similarly:

WALTER KOPPISCH, ED MCGINLEY, BO MCMILLAN, HARRY STUHLDREHER, BRICK MULLER, and EDDIE TYRON

had short NFL careers.

Two players contributed to NFL championship teams:

ED WEIR, 3 seasons in NFL incl. the 26 champion Yellow Jacket team

GEORGE “Wildcat” WILSON, 4 seasons in NFL incl. the 28 champion Steam Roller team; For more info on Wilson, see Jeff’s post #6 (different set)

And of course Grange, Nevers, and Friedman (better late than never) went on to the HOF.

Jeff/Carl and everyone have already done a tremendous job posting images, but is there any way I could see the bio backs for Friedman and Wilson? I'd love to read those. Thanks.

Garbish married daughter of Walter P. Chrysler so he was a man about town after his military service. Ed Weir returned to Nebraska and was a coach and athletic director at the University - I believe there is a stadium named in his honor. Oberlander coached at Ohio State, Dartmouth, and Wesleyan and then became a physician. Muller became an orthopedic surgeon; in 1956 he served as the Head Team Physician for the United States Olympic Team.

Jerry Ford followed a similar path, turning down a pro offer and then coaching at Yale while he got his law degree. Here is Wilson's 26 card and back


http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...rge/Wilson.jpg

Unfortunately some paper loss makes it hard to read but here is the Friedman Spalding back.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...edmanback1.jpg

jeff

Picked up this Detroit News premium of Dutch Clark the other day because 1) I thought the coloring looked cool and 2) it's signed by him!

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...50715_0014.jpg

Also a team premium of the 1936 Detroit Lions ... they were the defending NFL Champs.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...50715_0012.jpg

jeff

Thanks guys!

Mike, thanks for bringing some of those players to life - many of them were just names to me. I always enjoy reading about them. And nice George Wilson card - pretty cool how they mention Wilson’s Wildcats - I understand that to be a reference to L.A.’s entry in the Pyle/Grange AFL for the 26 season.

Jeff, awesome items! Thanks for the Friedman back - having read his bio, I know Bennie Oosterbaan was his teammate and primary target for his passes at Michigan, so I’m guessing the formation mentioned is a reference to him - although no idea what the formation is or exactly what it says. And referencing Nebraska rather than Michigan - that’s a bad mistake :)

I wonder if the Friedman card was printed after the Wilson because the Wilson card mentions the 25 season as the most recent, but the Friedman card I’m not sure as it mentions both 25 and 26. If the card is from prior to the 26 season, that would make it an undergraduate card of Friedman as he joined the pros (Cleveland Bulldogs) in 27.

Love the Lions items - lots of former Spartans in the mix. I always felt bad Father Lumpkin wasn’t on that team, but I see Presnell, Clark, Gutowsky, G. Christensen, Emerson, and Randolph all there. Any idea where it was taken? - looks like a rooftop - wonder if it was inside a stadium…..

The Lions were a great team in the mid 30s! What a star studded lineup they had.

And for you Father Lumpkin fans ...

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...50715_0006.jpg

jeff

Awesome! Thanks Jeff. I've never seen that photo - by all accounts I've read, Lumpkin was quite a character and playing without socks was one of his.... "quirks" - this picture confirms it. (And he wasn't bald as some sources have said - just helmetless :))

And that looks like coach Potsy Clark he's with - here are a few pages from an instructional football guide Potsy wrote in the 30s (lots of these are available on eBay inexpensively - I liked looking at the single wing plays)

Looks like coaching aged Potsy some - any idea what year that photo is from? My guess would be Father Lumpkin is wearing a Portsmouth Spartans jersey, but the colors look dark - even in b/w, I wouldn't think the yellow/gold on purple would look that way.