Shoeless Joe? A's? Please tell me I didn't miss this.
 

Okay,

I'll admit. This is driving me crazy for whatever reason. When I requested more pictures of lot 108 from Christie's Auction...I'm of coursed interested in the lot...however...I was for sure looking close at all details for obvious reason.

Not all the pictures are all from 1913-1914 A's... one photo (appears to be Amos Strunk) is dated 1909. Then I saw this snapshot...and well. My first thought was Shoeless Joe Jackson? Then I talked myself out of it. So I decided not to bid higher. My mind...keeps telling...they couldn't miss this right? Am I crazy? I had less than 24 hrs to do as much research as I could but..I couldn't find much.

If nothing else the board will get a good laugh. Otherwise I'll be pissed I missed out on super rare find... I just gotta know...

https://i.imgur.com/W3IThQR.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/QZgw4GI.jpg

Ira Thomas and Amos Strunk, no idea who that is in the middle.

That explains why "Jackson" is holding a catcher's mitt.

Thanks guys. I feel better. Don't know why it was bothering me so much.

I have no shame. Hopefully it at least got a few people to laugh :)

Exactly, that's Ira Thomas.

The one in the middle looks the most like Jackson at that time frame and could very well be him.
blackbetsy.com has a photo of him in an As uniform with Strunk and another player from 1909...Id email Mr Nola about it if I were you he would probably be able to tell you if Jackson was in El Paso with the As in 1909
http://www.blackbetsy.com/photosTheEarlyYears.html

I was assuming you meant the one in the middle might be Jackson bc the other two are easily identifiable.

You would be correct. I probably should of clarified that.

Yes, the person in the middle. I don't know who won the album...but I wonder if this gem was the personal estate of Amos Strunk. Lots of personal shots of him alone. Lots of photos of the players and their wives around the town. Someone close to the team for sure. IMO.

I'll have to check out the website. Who Mr. Nola? Owner of the website?

Mike Nola, he runs that site and is one of the leading Joe Jackson experts around. I emailed him with a link to this thread. Joe Jackson was with the A's in spring training in 1909. For sure more digging is needed thou

The fact the guy in the middle is in what looks like a totally different uniform is something to consider.

Not to make you feel bad but here is a picture from 1909 of Joe Jackson with some other Savannah GA players and their wives dressed up like players...Jackson's wife (back far left) is wearing a sweater that looks a lot like the one that man in the middle of this picture is wearing...
http://www.blackbetsy.com/photosTheEarlyYears.html

1909 A's team photo with Joe Jackson in it...and about three other guys who the man in the middle could be...
http://www.blackbetsy.com/photosTheEarlyYears.html

I must admit, the guy in the middle looks a bit like Joe Jackson, however I am concerned that he is not wearing an A's uniform. Jackson was with the A's during Spring Training for a while (still researching when he left for Savannah). He did not start the season with the A's and only finished the season with the A's. He arrived on September 7, 1909 in Philly just in time to get in on a game against the Highlanders, which the A's lost 8 to 6. He did not play another game until September 30th and he finished the season out (only played 5 game total with the A's that year). I sure wish you guys could get me a higher resolution photo to look at. Folks are always wanting me to look at these terrible images and want me to say 100 percent for sure if it's Joe Jackson or not and I simply can't do it with these low res images. I am doing some research now to see if I have a record of this appearing in a newspaper.....that will be our only hope of saying for sure this IS or ISN'T Joe Jackson. Trust me, I'd love to be able to say it's him......this would give me a new Jackson photo.....but at this point, I simply can't do that.

Thanks guys for the extra feedback.

I wish I had the actually item in hand. The photos I posted are from what the auction housed provided to me per request. I do have more images from the scrapbook ( might help with more clues to say yes or no ). if you are interested let me know I'll email them. I just didn't feel comfortable posting more images from this scrapbook that wasn't mine.

I would love to see the rest (of what you have that is) of the scrapbook. You can email me at shoeless@blackbetsy.com.

I've been digging in old newspapers and digging through the uniform database.....something doesn't add up with the uniforms for the A's for this being in the 1909 timeframe. The A's wore the old pillbox caps from 1909 to 1914. The uniform pants don't appear to have pinstripes on them (solids) and that DOES fit the 1909 time period, however there were other years they wore uniforms that were solid. They appear to have collars...which would limit it from the 1908 to 1912, possibly 1913 spring training time period. The caps could have been holdovers from the 1908 season as they wore caps like this during the 1908 campaign. The jackets with the elephant were used many seasons.....so they could be attributed to the 1909 season. Based on the collar on the uniform and the socks, we can attribute this photo from the 1909 to 1912 (possibly 1913 Spring Training), but that's it. Strunk only plaid 11 games in 1909, but he COULD have been there for Spring Training for sure. Another thing that bugs me is Jackson wore a size 10 and a half cleat, Strunk wore about the same size....but from this photo, it appears our "Jackson" character has smaller cleats on than Strunk, that concerns me a tad. The all black uniform concerns me and I am not aware that the second team Connie Mack had wore a different uniform. I'm still not ruling out this being Joe Jackson, but I wanted to get my concerns out there and see what other thought. Over the last 37 years I've seen a LOT of guys that looked like Jackson, but weren't in various photos people have sent me to get me to verify whether or not they had a genuine Jackson photo, 99 percent didn't. I'll keep digging and see if I can come up with more to either rule him in......or rule him out.

Both Strunk and Jackson were with the Athletics throughout Spring Training in 1909. From the notes in the 4/3/1909 Sporting Life: "The Athletics outfield is very much in doubt. Mack has Oldring and Hartsel as veterans and Heitmuller, Strunk and Jackson, all of whom are hitting the ball hard and showing lots of speed in the garden." The same issue stated that Mack planned to cut his roster down to 18 by June 1, but had nearly twice as many players at the time.

A bit puzzling is the fact that 1909 was Ira Thomas' first year with the team, so he would not be wearing his own 1908 left-over uniform (Tigers) to match Strunk's. If they gave him duds from on hand, one wonders why they would not have done the same for the guy in the middle, who likely was wearing his minor league uniform and sweater from the prior year. The A's were getting new uniforms for their new stadium in 1909, including the pillbox hats. Maybe they were given different new caps in the Spring--Strunk's especially looks pretty bright white --although that again begs the question as to why the guy in the middle was not outfitted as well. Unless that guy is not on the A's at all but is an opponent just there for a pic.

Was revisiting this picture and discussion. The notation at the bottom is "El, Pasco, Texas" which Im assuming is El Paso. I dont think in 1909 the Athletics were ever in El Paso where they? Doesn't look like it for spring training at least...did they do some kind of post season tour?

Spring Training 1909 was held in New Orleans and Joe Jackson arrived their ahead of the team as he traveled from Greenville (with a rep from the A's it appears a "doctor" to make sure he didn't get home sick. Team arrived there on March 10. Ira Thomas had signed and arrived in Philly in time to travel from there with the bulk of the team. Strunk also traveled with the bulk of the team from Philly.

It is worth noting that 1912 and 1913 spring training for the A's was in San Antonio, TX...the New York Giants were also training in TX and I think there was a rumor they were going to play each other during training season 1912 but believe that never came to fruition...but might the player in the middle be a NY Giant?

I have not found reference to the A's being in El Paso during this time frame yet...maybe someone else knows if they ever ventured out to El Paso?

The guy in the middle is wearing a sweater that looks a lot like the one Red Ames is wearing on his T3 card, complete with the large pocket.

I see a time traveling David Cone...

Attachment 371457

I am almost 100 percent positive that photo was removed from Strunk's 1910 spring training photo album so I doubt it's Jackson since he played his spring training games with New Orleans. Plus, it does not look like him. Strunk might have added 1909 to one of the photos later, but I dont think anything in that book was actually before the 1910 tour they did before the season.

The player in the middle is Harry Kane who played for the Phillies in 1905-06 and was managing a team in El Paso. A photo of Kane from 1902 below. The 1912 newspaper had him pitching for the A's.

That photo was taken in New Orleans, Louisiana at training camp. There isn't a white elephant on any of the coats. So, the original posted photo couldn't be training camp 1909.

The photo does have El Paso written on it for some reason then.

But I think you have guessed the right player in the middle, but man that guy aged very well in 10ish years. Good job!