Was told to post these pins in here so I am.
 

I recently made a purchase. $3000 for a bunch of PM10 Pinbacks. I have not paid yet because I want to make sure these are authentic first. I purchased a lot of PM10 pinbacks from Seaweed on ebay. I heard there are a few pin experts on here. Would love to get some opinions. Thanks

Heres more

Hello I dont like to comment to much on seaweed as he is high on his prices but I will tell you at least one of the pins is a repro . The Ted Williams that the name band goes all the way past his shoulder is a repro. Also I hope you didnt buy that purple Blitzkreg brooklyn pin as he has been told (I did see it sold) that it has nothing to do with the dodgers. Here is the 2 williams pins the one on the left is real. shorter name band.. Plus the little pennants that he puts on most of his pins never came with them.

Ugh that is very worrisome as he assured me they are all authentic and he has acquired them from stadiums. I'm not the type to back out but thinking about it as that doesn't make me fee too good.

Are the pennants real do you think?

The pennants are real but not very rare. A few are 1936-38 bf3s. Several are 1950 American Nut & Chocolates, and a few are very common 1950s mini-pennants. Nothing very special about any of them. Like Al said, they never came with the pins. IMO the value of the pennants range from 10 to 30 dollars individually.

Didn't you just purchase that fake 54 Aaron for $1300 also? Seems like you may be going about things the wrong way. Just a suggestion but why not ask for opinions on authenticity and value before making substantial purchases.

Yes just got a refund tonight for that card thank goodness.

Thank you Matty! As far as the pins go, what do you think about the value on those? I bought them all to keep the robinsons and resell the rest. At 3000 was that too rich of authentic? Are they authentic?

I can and will tell you that most of the pins that he has are real. Just not all of them. (3) in the postings I see are not. As Matty39 said the little mini pennants are real but 99.9 percent of these never came with the PM10 stadium pins. The only ones I have seen are some of the cubs pins with a small cubs pennant on them. Eric(seaweed) is a member here and I dont want to ruin his deal with you so I willnot tell you which ones are not period. I have collected pins for over 40 years and its very hard to give an education here in 5 minutes. But as was stated maybe you should do a little more research before putting up the money you are saying your spending.

Thank you AL. Are any of the jackies fake? That's why I bought these. Thanks

Yes all the Jackies are real! I do hope that helps you a bit....

I've always assumed seaweed's pins were legit but I've never understood the rationale for adorning them with mini pennants not original to the pins...

Agree that 99% of the little pennants never came with the pins. But another example I can think of (which I believe to be as issued) are the little orange Giants pennants that accompany Pins like Hubbell, Bartell, Melton, etc.

You are correct on those. Those abundance of those particular pins is amazing. Meanwhile, about 5-6 of 1960s era Giants PM-10s are next to impossible.

Yes Mark those to! But like I said to him its hard to give an education here in five minutes! By the way the New room looks great!:eek:

Marketing and $$$$ that the Rationale.. same as the vendors putting on the ribbons and trinkets... $$$$ would you buy the white christmas Lexus naked or with the nice big red ribbon on the roof? well you get what I mean!;);)

LAST 2. Are these good?

Yes!

Seaweed bought that last Mays from me!

I paid 60 for it lol hope I didn't get killed

Thats Fine for it..

Do you have an extensive pin collection??

He sure does.....but good luck trying to pry any away from him! :p

Not true all it takes is a few extra Benjamins! Compared to a few other members here who will remain nameless Im a piece of cake! ;);) Just sometimes one must learn to open up his snapper purse once in awhile!;);)

How many pins did you buy for $3,000?
Jerry Sage

34 total pins for 3190.

Thanks

If anyone is interested in any i will be offering any of them in trade and sale other than the jackies. Looking for rare Jackie stuff or graded jackie Robinson cards. With trade a bunch for one nice card. Thanks

Email sent.
Jerry Sage
jssage24@yahoo.com

There are a few JR items in the current Hunt auction:

http://huntauctions.com/phone/current.cfm

Thanks im gonna check it out.

FWIW, when I started collecting pins years ago virtually none of them had the dangly crap on them. A few years ago I started seeing them more and more on eBay. IMO the vast majority of them are Frankenstein creations of vintage pins, charms and mini-pennants. As I am not expert enough in pins to separate the modern monsters from the real deals I simply will not buy any pin with 'pin-nuts'.

ETA: what the other guys said: learn first then make purchases. And I'd start with just a few items that you want to keep, not with thousands of dollars of stuff you hope you can flip. This is a hobby that requires considerable expertise at the dealer levels and novice collectors are setting themselves up for losses if they try to buy high end stuff to flip before learning what they are buying.

I completely agree. I also think this case isn't something as innocent as bundling items to make the lot look more appealing. I think it is a slimey practice of intentionally making these items appear that they were originally issued together that way. Frankenstein is the perfect word.

I would agree that many pins on eBay and other auctions have ribbons or pennants added which were not original. Some are very obvious, some are not. If one looks through Muchinsky's book they will see a large percentage of his pins had some type of attachment. Those of us who are old enough to remember going to ballparks in the 50's and 60's, saw vendors selling pins adorned with attachments. Ribbons, tinkets......anything to make their pins stand out from the vendor next to them selling the same pins. I am sure they were added by each individual vendor, but they were original to the pin at that time.

I particularly like pins with attached ribbons containing printing denoting special events: World Series, All Star Game, etc. I believe this can add to a pins value. The attached photo show two pins which I believe have less value if the ribbon is not present. But that's just me.

Here is another photo showing vendors in New York selling pins in the 1950s.

Personally, I love the ribbons and charms of all kinds, but you do have to be careful and know what you're doing, there are a lot of "Frankensteins" out there. Time and experience will provide some sense of what is period and what's not.

I can't agree, Adam. Yes, there are many sellers (one on particular) who are adding things that never came with the pins. Buy many, if not most, PM-10's were originally sold with the (predominantly) red, white and blue ribbons and various trinkets.

As a pin guy, I find this discussion of pins and how they were sold originally quite interesting. Does Muchinsky discuss this aspect? Here are several questions/observations for the experts out there:

1) I would guess that most pins sold at or outside stadiums throughout the years were sold originally with something attached in the way of ribbons, charms, trinkets, etc. I can actually remember seeing pins at Griffith Stadium in the 1950s that had rabbit's feet and knives attached! It's my assumption that most of the pins we see "naked" these days had lost their attachments over the years.
2) I doubt if vendors would have been going to the trouble of attaching things to naked pins, I suspect they would have bought them one way or the other and sold them as is.
3) I love the picture of the Yankees pins. Anybody else have photos of vendor or stadium displays? How about yearbooks, where there would be a page of concession items sometimes? Here's a link to a stand of "1924 Pennant Winners" pins sold outside of Griffith Stadium during the series. I think the baseballs might have been candy containers. http://rmyauctions.com/lot-937.aspx
Here's another picture of this pin as auctioned, but I'm not sure if the ribbon and charm are original.

I believe the vendors did in fact attach the hangers to the pins after they received them from distributors. Ribbons and cheap tinkets added to the appeal when they hung them on their boards for sale. The better the item added, the more alluring to the buyer.

But what is your evidence for this? Obviously, those things do add to the appeal, but why wouldn't the manufacturers and distributors want to take advantage of this, too, and why would vendors want to go to all the trouble of buying pins and add-ons separately and putting them together? Your Senators pin is a tough one, but I would say of the handful of examples I've seen over the years, three of them came the way yours is, which would lead me to conclude that that's the way they came to the vendors, and the ones without the baseball had simply lost it somewhere along the way. My example of that pin has the same "flag" ribbon, but with metal glove and ball charms, which I'm guessing is a Frankenstein put together by a dealer.

Incidentally, looking at the 1924 "Pennant Winners" pin and the Senators pin together would certainly seem to provide a good date for the Senators pin, which would be hard to guess otherwise from the graphics alone.

I don't have any proof the attachments were added by the sellers. Just my opinion. Muchinsky did state in his book that the attachments were usually added by the vendors to add to their appeal. He also told about a veteran collector who recalled seeing vendors adding ribbons and charms to pins outside Yankee Stadium and Ebbets Field.

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Wow I love the traction this thread gained!! Love the information! This is amazing and I'm learning so much!

Likewise, I don't have anything to dispute it, just a feeling of greater likelihood that assembly would have been done at the source to enhance attractiveness and sales. Wonder if there's much in the way of information on manufacturers or distributors out there, does Muchinsky go into that? I need to get his book. I'll also grill Rick Haskins at the national this summer about some of these things, he's seen as many pinbacks as anybody.

Who is Rick Haskins?

Why don't you simply REMOVE the add-ons if you don't like them...problem solved:cool:

Long-time dealer from Texas who always has the biggest assortment of vintage pennants and pins at the National.

No!!!!!!!!!

While not proof, what I found in an old classified ad on the internet does add credence to my theory that the ribbons and tinkets attached to pins were done by the vendors. The persons name is not in the ad, but the information is very interesting.


Phil Rizzuto Souvenir Pinback Baseball Button 1 3/4 inch.
This is a Vintage souvenir baseball pin / button. When I was a child 5-13 years of age I would spend occasional summer weeks at my Grandfathers & Grandmothers house in the Bronx, New York. Grandpa Joe, AKA “Baseball Joe”, was the owner of a large outside food and souvenir concession (1945-1975) at Yankee Stadium; opposite gate 6. As a result, they kept an inventory of souvenirs, in their garage at their residence. While visiting, as a child, I would often play at, in, and around the rear yard and the garage. Grandma, would allow me to play with the souvenirs and would also allow me to take and keep what I wanted. I was their 1st grandchild, therefore the oldest, and looking back, I was treated special.
As I approached my teen years, I became a weekend and summer employee of “Baseball Joes” Concessions. Among my numerous jobs, (when not selling hotdogs) was opening boxes of these buttons, cutting ribbon from rolls & installing the pin into its back (they snap in). In other words, the buttons you see elsewhere, with trinkets and ribbons hanging from them, were not factory generated. Rather, they were assembled by concessionaires and souvenir vendors. I know, because while the baseball games were being played, I would assemble hundreds of these souvenir items.
What I have for sale here, is the souvenir baseball button, AS IT WAS SHIPPED from the manufacture. The rear pin (basically an attaching device so you can pin it onto your shirt) was never installed by the factory. The (2) components were shipped separately. In the mid 1970’s the City of NY, through imminent domain, bought Grandpa out, razed his buildings, and built a multilevel parking garage. Prior to that happening, which was the end of “Baseball Joes”, Grandma, who I loved dearly, allowed me to take a box of these old buttons and various other souvenirs, for myself. Fast-forward to today, I have had these items for 40+ years, and now I am selling some of them.
So please study the photos carefully and determine if this is the Vintage souvenir baseball button you want. You will receive the Pin in the Photos. I will answer any questions you have and will gather any information needed, will supply additional photos if requested; just ask. Kindly see my other items for sale, as there will be others of my Vintage souvenir baseball buttons listed.