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-   -   Helmars? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=266230)

jchcollins 02-25-2019 09:20 AM
Helmars?
 
Does anyone collect these that could share some impressions / knowledge? I know the cards are in essense modern day contrivances, but I've been looking at their website and honestly I think the cards are very cool.

Since I decided recently that real prewar is generally out of my price range, I was wondering if a Helmar here and there might be an occasionally affordable alternative to still get a nice piece of certain players who might otherwise be out of reach. Would be curious to hear from anyone who actually has some of these. Do you enjoy them? Do they smack of being "fake" or some type of later day reproduction? I think I might could get behind something actually with the knowledge that it was hand crafted with some thought behind what it was, and not just a cheap reprint.

Lastly - this place is really a brewery? Or is that just imaginary to put on card art?

Thanks.

RedsFan1941 02-25-2019 10:12 AM
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ghlight=helmar

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ghlight=helmar

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ghlight=helmar

rjackson44 02-25-2019 10:28 AM
ill stay far away ,,,

asphaltman 02-25-2019 10:59 AM
If I were on a tight budget, I think I could still find relatively inexpensive pre-war cards to keep myself occupied before I'd go spending money on these. And by the way, these aren't so inexpensive from the ones I've seen.

You can by well worn T206's, T205's, E120's, E121's, etc in plentiful amounts as your spending money allows. No, you may not be able to pick up a Cobb, so if that's the goal I guess maybe you're stuck with a modern day reprint. Just not my cup of tea.

Golfcollector 02-25-2019 11:02 AM
I am a Sam Crawford collector so I have picked up a few of these cards, as well as some other Mock ups from other folks who do things similar to Helmar.

I know they really are not going to go up in value, but I think they are neat cards and if you are happy with the price you may need to pay for them, that is the important thing.

Some of these "art cards" can go for pretty insane money

rhettyeakley 02-25-2019 11:10 AM
The maker of these cards is not a person i’d want to deal with based on his responses to the previous threads on Net54.

Even if I thought I wanted one of these cards the maker is knowingly breaking the law by not getting permission to use the likenesses of those being depicted. Many of the players are not highly monitored nor is it worth the time for anyone to care but other players or entities representing those players do require permission to use an image of that person for profit. You can’t simple use The image of Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, etc without permission but this “artist” does so regularly and he knows it. There is a reason he doesn’t do current players... he’d get sued. He is banking on the fact that nobody is going to bother trying to stop him on the more obscure players. The fact that he uses images of living players and doesn’t compensate them for the use of their image is criminal to me (if you are going to make money using someone like Rod Carew’s image you should be paying Rod Carew for the right to do so!!!)

The fact that these are called “art cards” is ridiculous, the maker is simply using photoshop and other digital methods to alter images and trying to circumvent the law by saying he is making “art”

The reality is that these at best aren’t good for the hobby and at worst they are breaking established copyright and licensing laws.

Yastrzemski Sports 02-25-2019 11:18 AM
This guy has made quite a good business for himself. Some of these sell for hundreds of dollars. For myself, if they were a couple bucks to have something different on a player it’s cool. For $25-$300+ I would think you are crazy. But there are a lot of crazy people out there.

jchcollins 02-25-2019 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhettyeakley (Post 1858064)
The maker of these cards is not a person i’d want to deal with based on his responses to the previous threads on Net54.

Even if I thought I wanted one of these cards the maker is knowingly breaking the law by not getting permission to use the likenesses of those being depicted. Many of the players are not highly monitored nor is it worth the time for anyone to care but other players or entities representing those players do require permission to use an image of that person for profit. You can’t simple use The image of Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, etc without permission but this “artist” does so regularly and he knows it. There is a reason he doesn’t do current players... he’d get sued. He is banking on the fact that nobody is going to bother trying to stop him on the more obscure players. The fact that he uses images of living players and doesn’t compensate them for the use of their image is criminal to me (if you are going to make money using someone like Rod Carews image you should be paying Rad Caree for the right to do so!!!)

The fact that these are called “art cards” is ridiculous, the maker is simply using photoshop and other digital methods to alter images and trying to circumvent the law by saying he is making “art”

The reality is that these at best aren’t good for the hobby and at worst they are breaking established copyright and licensing laws.
Good perspective - I had not really considered that. Since I made this post though I've realized that most lower grade T212 Obak's are cheaper cards to collect. Oy, I can never decide what I want to do with prewar...

steve B 02-25-2019 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhettyeakley (Post 1858064)
The maker of these cards is not a person i’d want to deal with based on his responses to the previous threads on Net54.

Even if I thought I wanted one of these cards the maker is knowingly breaking the law by not getting permission to use the likenesses of those being depicted. Many of the players are not highly monitored nor is it worth the time for anyone to care but other players or entities representing those players do require permission to use an image of that person for profit. You can’t simple use The image of Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, etc without permission but this “artist” does so regularly and he knows it. There is a reason he doesn’t do current players... he’d get sued. He is banking on the fact that nobody is going to bother trying to stop him on the more obscure players. The fact that he uses images of living players and doesn’t compensate them for the use of their image is criminal to me (if you are going to make money using someone like Rod Carew’s image you should be paying Rod Carew for the right to do so!!!)

The fact that these are called “art cards” is ridiculous, the maker is simply using photoshop and other digital methods to alter images and trying to circumvent the law by saying he is making “art”

The reality is that these at best aren’t good for the hobby and at worst they are breaking established copyright and licensing laws.

The whole field of IP is a minefield. Images from before 1923 are public domain, but certain public figures have a "right to publicity" or something like that that can vary from state to state.


I'm fairly sure that not all of the Helmar cards are simply done digitally. Before they got really popular, some were being sold that were supposedly actual original art that cards had been made from. The size didn't seem right, but there are people who do art specifically on baseball card sized cardstock.

glchen 02-25-2019 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhettyeakley (Post 1858064)
The maker of these cards is not a person i’d want to deal with based on his responses to the previous threads on Net54.

Even if I thought I wanted one of these cards the maker is knowingly breaking the law by not getting permission to use the likenesses of those being depicted. Many of the players are not highly monitored nor is it worth the time for anyone to care but other players or entities representing those players do require permission to use an image of that person for profit. You can’t simple use The image of Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, etc without permission but this “artist” does so regularly and he knows it. There is a reason he doesn’t do current players... he’d get sued. He is banking on the fact that nobody is going to bother trying to stop him on the more obscure players. The fact that he uses images of living players and doesn’t compensate them for the use of their image is criminal to me (if you are going to make money using someone like Rod Carew’s image you should be paying Rod Carew for the right to do so!!!)

The fact that these are called “art cards” is ridiculous, the maker is simply using photoshop and other digital methods to alter images and trying to circumvent the law by saying he is making “art”

The reality is that these at best aren’t good for the hobby and at worst they are breaking established copyright and licensing laws.
+1. I completely agree with the above comments.

Exhibitman 02-25-2019 12:24 PM
The other day I was watching a T218-style Helmar of Sam Langford that was listed as an original artwork. It sold for more than the actual T218 does. Unbelievable. It was really nice but come on.

I do have a soft spot for 'Broders' and other unlicensed products pre-1980. They are just a lot of fun and pretty cheap. I can't see spending $70 on a Helmar creation, though.


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