What is the RAREST Pre War COMPLETE PSA graded set??
 

Hi Gang:

Wondering if there is any way to see something I have always thought about.

What is the rarest COMPLETE set in the PSA registry based on the fewest individual cards graded for that set.

Say for instance there is someone who has a complete set that has 75 cards in it. However looking at the POP report if you subtract the 75 cards from the guys complete set there are only, say for example, 8 other cards from that set that have been graded. I'd say that is a pretty rare set.

Anyone have knowledge of how to research something like this? Or know any complete sets you want to "nominate". If so what is the set and how many other cards have been graded?

With those parameters I would say the T206 524 has to be up there.

Not pertaining to a registry, because I couldn't care less about them, but...

Jim Blumenthal (rip) finished a N167 baseball set. Not sure another one was complete before that but there might have been.

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no way! something like a t215 pirate set(no known complete sets) or some other obscure set with a low overall pop. overall pop of T206 is monstrous!

I think you missed my point or I did not explain properly.

I would think the T206 set would be the exact oppostie of what I am asking. There are TONS of individual cards from the T206 set that have been graded.

I asked about a complete set someone has that then has the fewest individual cards graded for that set

The parameters are a complete set in the PSA registry. If we're going complete set rarity in general there are several including a complete set of Rose postcards as well as the T215 Pirate you mentioned.

Ah, I did miss your point.

Leon:

I too could care about the registry, but that is the only thing we have as a "record" to know what is out there

I am not asking about multiple complete sets.

Using your mention of Jim's N167 complete set, I am asking how many other N167's have been graded not counting his cards.

Looking for a complete set with the fewest OTHER cards from that set that have been graded.

Pete:

If there are no T215 Pirate COMPLETE sets, that does not meet my parameters.

I am looking for a complete set with the fewest other cards from that set

Jim's N167 set came to my mind first as well. Was his set completely graded? It definitely wasn't completely PSA graded. PSA has only graded 15 N167s total and only 7 different players.

Well, I know that this set is definitely not the rarest complete set, but I have a W519 Type 1 set here: Link, where for some of the cards, there are only a total population of 3, which are graded by PSA. However, the reason isn't that these cards are rare, it's more that they aren't worth that much, so no one bothers to get them graded. :)

I think there is a complete T215 Pirate set owned by Rich, he bought it as the Mastro live auction in Cleveland about 15 years ago.

I hope Rich does have a complete set. But there is none listed in the PSA registry. There are only 11 cards from the set in the POP report. Certainly if there were to be a complete set graded and on the registry this would be the type of info I am looking for. I would bet 11 would be hard to top.

The T49 set which has a baseball card among the 20 would be a good example.
There's one known complete set.
And as far as I know no cards graded between PSA and SGC

Three of the cards weren't even known until 2011, about a century after they were probably issued.

If we’re counting non-sports like T49 it’s probably one of those; very few of even the tough sets get submitted.

Not a set together anymore today, but were the Alleghenies submitted all together when they were found? I don’t recall when/the story of that issue’s discovery.

Interesting about non sport sets, but since this is a Pre War BASEBALL CARD forum, I am asking about a baseball set.

i was pretty sure someone was 1 card away from completion...I dunno?

I couldnt care less if people could care less about the registry.

Pretty sure the title of the thread was specific enough, lest people pontificate.




Sheesh

T206 for real? That's a guess? Not sure how many Doyle's are out there but plenty of cards more rare than the Wagner

So eliminating all the "baseball sets" that are actually part of a multi sport set?

T3/T9
T227
T332
Most N sets
W551

And many more.

Let's limit it to "just" the 27,846 Company sets listed in the PSA Registry under Baseball.

If the intent is to gage true rarity, then PSA is probably not the best measure for pre-war. Regardless of PSA v. SGC v. raw, a nod has to be given first to sets like Allegheny and Alpha Engraving, which have been complete at some time in the past.

As for other sets more in the spirit, I'd think Jim B's N167 set probably tops your parameters (but I don't recall who it was graded by).

The T215 Pirate set was a near-set as memory serves when it was purchased. I'm not sure whether or not it was ever completed, but its rarity fits the direction you are heading.

E107 has been completed relatively recently for the first time, but again... not sure on the grader. That also would be right up there on the list.

I suspect that there isn't a lot of overlap on the Venn diagram of those who play the PSA registry game and those who seek pre-war, true scarcity.

T215 Pirate

I am only using the PSA registry because that is the only way ( that I know of) to know what other cards in any said set are out there. If you know a better way PLMK

I submitted the same question in the Post War forum. Howard came up with a set called 1954 Blossom Dairy Charleston Senators A "quiet" member of this board has a complete set of all 22 cards. Looking at the POP report there are 23 cards graded. Thus beside his set there is only 1 other card from the set that has been graded. I would call that a truly rare set. The only thing that could top that is if someone has a complete set of something with no other cards from the set that has been graded.

My thought process for asking this question is I am thinking of submitting my 1959 Dad's Cookies complete set of 64 cards to PSA and wondered how many other cards from the set have been graded. I found that only 28 were. Pretty rare, but nothing like the Blossom Dairy set mentioned above.

I know there are other Dad's Cookie cards out there, but there is no way as I said previously that I can find out exactly how many. Saying that, I truly believe there is no other complete set, but who really knows!!??

Glenn:

If I am correct there are 96 cards in the T215 set. Looking at the PSA registry I find no complete set listed. Checking out the POP report I see a total of 11 cards have been graded by PSA.

Thus there is no way the T215 set fits this conversation since there is no complete set and there can not be as long as only 11 cards out of 96 have been graded.

I'll throw out the 1910 PC796, although one member here has a complete set it's not registered at PSA. PSA has 43 graded with 9 cards being only one graded. There are more graded at SGC but that starts to get down the rabbit hole.

Brian:

If I am correct there are 147 cards in the E107 Type 1 set and 8 in the Type 2 set. I see no complete set for either listed on the PSA Registry.

The POP report shows only 6 different for the Type 2 set and a total of 130 of ALL cards not just different cards for the Type 1's, so neither could exist as a complete set.

Believe it or not, there are A Lot of cards and sets NOT in PSA holders. Many collectors are still largely SGC and still others are completely raw. And, I am talking about major collectors. Especially Exhibits and other PC issues. The third largest E107 collection currently assembled is still raw to this day.

I am not sure if any are the rarest, but I have 4 complete rare sets:

T206 524 (I know of one other)
E107 (I have the sole known - it contains all known but perhaps unconfirmed things pop up in time)
1906 Lincoln Publishing (not sure if others exist)
E104-2 (not sure if others exist)

No doubt. And I resemble that description. I have many complete sets that I have not submitted for grading. However for my exact question I need there to be a graded complete set and then to see how many other cards from that set were graded after deducting the cards from the complete set.

I just read the whole thread- so you are asking only about psa graded cards and psa registry sets. Well, the good news is that psa publicly publishes their registry and their pop reports, so I think the answer to your query is readily available if you are willing to do the work.

I have not done the work, so I am sorry, I cannot help

Regarding T215 pirate- great F-ing set! I believe the most complete is one card short. I used to have two t215 pirates, which I think was the second most complete set ��. Tuff tuff set and my guess is the one that must clearly fits the OP’s query

The e107 set was graded by SGC

Fred,

It is an interesting question, and one I see you asked on the Post-War side as well, and got virtually the ultimate answer on (1954 Blossom Dairy Charleston Senators), given your parameters. As others have pointed out though, your question does ignore cards graded by other TPGs, and has no way to take into consideration the number of raw cards that may be out there.

Plus, I think you may be ignoring a fundamental difference between Pre- and Post-War baseball card collectors. In all my years in the hobby I've noted that Pre-War collectors tend to not be as caught up in PSA's registry as their Post-War counterparts. Plus, the Pre-War crowd may not always be as concerned with set collecting, given the extreme rarity and difficulty in finding many cards and sets from the Pre-War era. Also, Pre-War collectors tend to be more of a true collector nature, and often prefer raw ungraded, cards. An additional issue in limiting your question to just PSA graded items is that PSA doesn't grade every recognized Pre-War issue out there (1928 Fro-joys, S74 silks), or they haven't been grading them continuously or for as long as the other TPGs (M101-2 Sporting News Supplements).

I think when it comes to Pre-War items and determining rarity, you are better off going to the PSA, SGC, and Becket sites (and I guess now add CSG to that mix as well) and simply seeing how many graded examples are being shown, in combined total, that are out there. You can then ask around if there are any known complete sets, just not necessarily all graded, or at least not all graded by just one TPG. When it comes to old, rarer cards, I'd be less likely to want to break out cards from one TPG's slabs so as to have them re-graded and slabbed by another TPG, simply to have the entire set graded by just one TPG. The potential for accidental damage to a card, or the potential for downgrading of it due to the perceived tougher grading standards of today, would leave me inclined to leave Pre-War cards as I found them.

Oh, and the cost and time factor of getting everything graded by PSA may be another deterrent, especially over the last couple of years.

Still a very intriguing question though.

ALL incredibly SUPER rare complete sets. I owned a complete set of T206 as well, but in the 70's LONG before anyone thought up TPG's thank heavens!

But for this exercise the complete sets have to be on the PSA registry and by default the PSA POP report.

Fred, I'm not sure but I think something like this is what you're looking for.
I'm not sure how rare they are maybe most people just don't get them graded.

6 cards in the set only 9 total graded by PSA one complete set and the other set has two of the 3 remaining graded cards in it.

https://www.psacard.com/pop/baseball...-comics/153905

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...-h804-16/16749

Pat:

Bingo!! That is the type of thing I am asking about! As you say 9 cards in the complete set that is registered and only three other cards from the set in the POP report.

However there are two sets noted so far in the Post War thread that beat this. One I mentioned above, the 1954 Blossom Dairy set with only one other card in the POP and the Kiwanis Orioles set with only two other cards in the POP.

Personally, I find it difficult to postulate the question since it is limited ONLY to PSA-graded sets. Quite simply, I'm one who doesn't care about registry points. So, to me, PSA's registry is a VERY incomplete catalog of what is out there - particularly in prewar baseball.

If expanded to PSA + SGC + raw, I find it a very interesting discussion. If that is the case, once the 1 of 1 sets like Allegheny are acknowledged, I think the list would probably start and stop with Jim B's N167 set (unless Richard was able to complete his T215 Pirate set - in which case, it would likely "win").

Bob:

The funny thing is I agree with all you say. And I am now a post war collector with all the characteristics you describe for Pre War collectors.

This has gotten more out of hand than I expected. I figured using only PSA for reference would make it easier. Adding other TPG's will only confuse the situation more.

Wonder if we will find a complete set on the registry in either Pre or Post war sets with NO other cards in the POP report? That would be the ultimate.

Brian:

I agree, but HOW do you get ALL the correct info if you "expand" it to include RAW as you suggest? That is the only reason I limited it to PSA because the info is readily available

This is the closest I can find Fred.

4 in the complete set with 5 total graded.

https://www.psacard.com/pop/baseball...e-cards/180609
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...-h804-26/20794

If you open it to other sports, like football it would even be more interesting. I’m sure almost everyone on this forum collects others stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL

Fred,

I hear you. I went the other way and started Post- before going more Pre-War myself. Still, like you, I tend to follow Pre-War collector attributes overall.

And because it seems the investing side of things keeps growing so much, and other factors like Ebay's evolving authentication requirements, I expect even more and more vintage cards in the hobby will continue to be graded in the future. So that 1954 Blossom Dairy set may only be the correct answer to your Post-War question for now, and can change down the line.

Seems to me, based on your parameters, the only way to definitively know for certain that someone has the rarest possible complete, graded set out there, is if one person could somehow acquire every single card of a set where only one of each card in that set exists, and they have all the cards in that unique set graded by PSA. Off the top of my head, the 1904 Allegheny Card Co. and 1921 Herpolsheimer card sets would be perfect. I'm probably forgetting, or am unaware of, some others.

The problem though would be finding someone with enough time, patience, connections, and probably most importantly money, to eventually be able to acquire every single unique card in either of those sets. Whoever did try to do that would most likely have to pry some cards out of the cold dead hands of some very dedicated type card collectors, to have any possible chance of ever completing such a goal. I know I actually have a card from each of those two unique sets myself, and am not looking to sell either one of them.

I don't think Rich is a PSA registry kind of person. And I think but could be wrong he most likely has the most complete N172 set.

Asking to learn and not question - what cards are more rare than Wagner?

There are quite a few 1/1 - 1/10 cards out there, there was a thread here not to long ago showing quite a few.

In terms of rarity
 

defined as the number of known examples, Wagner doesn't even make the conversation. Many, many cards more rare.

Probably almost every player with a pre-war card (include Wagner himself of course) has cards rarer than a T206 Wagner.

The 1930 Frank H. Fleer Whiz Bang set might qualify. It is thought the set is comprised of 16 cards, 3 of which are baseball players (Goslin, Grove & Hartnett). The cards originally surfaced in the 2009 REA auction.

I requested PSA add the set to the registry and supplied them with info on the set including the original REA auction listing. They approved the set but it is not listed yet. I have not sent in my cards to be graded; to my knowledge, none are graded at PSA or SGC.

They are 15 baseball cards known of the 3 players with a distribution of 5 for Gosling, 6 for Grove and 4 for Hartnett.

For pre war postcards I would say

1908-09 Rose
1935 Pebble Beach
1923 Exhibits

I think it's a bit of a stretch to consider H804s as baseball cards.
The number is a catchall for baseball themed trade cards. With a few exceptions they were sold as generic blank cards, and the merchant buying them would have their company info printed or rubber stamped on the ones they bought.

Typically they were sold by the hundred, which for a set of 4-5 would be a total of 20-25 each for a particular business. so it's not surprising if some are very uncommon. Some like Merchants Gargling Oil are very common. It's also likely there are several that don't even exist anymore.

They don't generally depict actual players, but general comical (depending on your sense of humor) baseball scenes.

+1

Tough PSA sets
 

Looking at the PSA Pop reports, these are some of the toughest to collect in PSA slabs. These are all from the era of 1906-1916.

1906 Ullman Postcard, only 4 graded total for the whole set
1910 Washington Times, only 6 graded total for the whole set
1914 E&S Postcard, only 11 graded
1910 T215 Pirate, only 11 graded
1909-16 Max Stein Postcard, only 15 graded
1911 Baltimore News, only 23 graded
1910 E104-3, only 22 graded
1910 E104-2, only 27 graded
1910 T208 Cullivan's Fireside, only 30 graded
1914 E224 Texas Tommy, only 32 graded
1910 T215 Red Cross Type 1, only 42 graded

Some of these sets have quite a few SGC graded, however.