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Posted By: <b>vorthian&nbsp; </b><p><BR><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1064107231" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1064107231</a><BR><BR>Check the description for the set he has as well.

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Posted By: <b>MW</b><p>The scan may very well be deceptive, but the bottom edge appears to be bowed -- not something typically seen on Goudeys. Based on what I've seen and the top-to-bottom centering, I would say that the grade was about right (if it was in fact graded).<BR><BR>This card in a PSA 6 sells for about $3,000. Why break it out of the holder? I'm not sure if I buy the story.

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Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>I was actually a bit surprised that the seller singled out Madec. Haven't heard anything re: his getting unusually high grades.<BR><BR>Novella I only remember from the 1913 Joe Jackson PSA 10 of a year or two ago...

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>but quite funny. I can relate to passionate rantings. I've heard similar complaints about "normal guys" getting shafted on grades, so I sent a few in to PSA through a dealer that reportedly got special treatment and my cards came back one grade HIGHER than I expected. I was thrilled of course, but it really made me question the legitimacy of grading. I'm sending some cards to SGC and I'm still debating if I should go through a dealer or not. I would much prefer "authentication and alteration only" services, but it's a fact that some cards sell better graded, so we have to deal with this.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>has been that SGC will play no such games . Again, for the 100th time I have said it, PSA WILL play the "dealer gets better grade game". I know some very respected dealers who have first hand knowledge of the PSA crap. SGC remains my favorite. regards all...

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I have known and dealt with Andy for quite a few years. About three years ago I bought a 1954 Aaron from him that he had submitted THREE times to PSA because he was convinced that the 7 was an 8. The card came back a 7 every time. I paid within $100 of a 7 price for it. Really, it was a 'tweener; SGC would have given it an 86. If he was ever getting special treatment, it would have been at that time, because PSA was courting him for a job with them (he turned them down). <br><br>I have a lot of reasons for disliking PSA, but I have yet to see any favoritism involving Andy. What I can say is that Andy gets high grades consistently because he has a really good eye and only submits stuff that is really crisp. A lot of the raw cards he has sold or traded to me over the years have graded 92/8.5 (SGC) and 9 with PSA.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>there are certain dealers/auction houses that get better grades.....I have no experience with Andy and he might very well NOT get special treatment. I know some do though.....regards

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Posted By: <b>vorthian</b><p>&lt;&lt; Novella I only remember from the 1913 Joe Jackson PSA 10 of a year or two ago...&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>I don't think that was Novella's card - yes, he had it on his website, but he has also listed cards that were not his. When that JJ came to eBay, it was under the seller pspa123.<BR><BR>Now if someone wants to explain WHY, for the longest time, when you entered the serial number in PSA's database, it came up as a PSA 9 instead of a PSA 10 with some rep's at PSA not having a clue - that is quite odd. Especially for a $25k card.

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Posted By: <b>MW</b><p>edited

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Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>To para phrase Shakespeare:<BR><BR>Me thinks the seller doth protest too much.

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Posted By: <b>Julian</b><p>It's incredible that this individual didn't mention Bill Goodwin, Dave Forman, and Superior Sports Cards in the same breath as Andy, SCP, and Steve. The constant that I see with the "Heavyweights" mentioned above is, they do display some of the nicest, sweetest cards ever found in the card trading hobby. They are also the most respected because of there impeccable reputation built on every transaction. I have had dealings with almost everybody on this list. I will definitely buy from all of the mentioned above and I don't really feel that they get much help from the volume of cards submitted to PSA. My advice, regardless of grade, is to buy the card, not the holder. My last "kind of" big acquisition, from the list above, was a 1914 Cracker Jack Ed Walsh PSA 8. I bought the card from Andy Madec. He brought it the Ft. Washington Card Show, prior to his last auction, for me to view under a light and magnification. As I always suspected with someone like Andy, a cherry of a card from an awesome, down to earth, PSA Dealer. I'd buy from these guy's before I buy from someone complaining about a Grading Company doing their job. <BR><BR>The Board, what do you think? Do certain people get preferential treatment because of volume submissions?

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Posted By: <b>Plastic Dog</b><p>Special treatment? I have no doubt. Not just higher grades though. I'm sure some trimmed and otherwise altered cards (maybe even counterfeits, like say, a Ruth rookie) have made it into PSA holders for special clients.<BR><BR>But how long are they going to be around, anyway? Collector's Universe stock is not exactly going through the roof. PSA is probably costing them quite a bit too, providing refunds for faulty grading (and for every one we hear about, I'm sure another 5-10 occur in private). The top graders left and are pushing a new service. SGC is making headway in the vintage market, Beckett takes a fair amount out of the new market (no idea why, but apparently it does). How much longer are they going to be a major player? <BR><BR>SGC still gets my vote. Even if they do give MW preferential treatment. Just kidding. <BR><BR>Tom

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Posted By: <b>MW</b><p>Just look at Leon and some of the grades <b> HE </b> gets! Now <b> <i> THAT'S </i> </b> preferential treatment if I've ever seen any!!! (Really Leon, I'm only kidding!)

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Posted By: <b>Plastic Dog</b><p>when there's a really nice frame around it.

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Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>Collectors Universe can simply go private again. Going public was (in my mind) a means for the top-dogs at CU to get cash from investors. e.g. David Hall cashing out on his involvement in the graded coin and card industry. Even though their stock price sucks, and will probably continue to go down, they don't really seem to have a cash flow problem, and probably don't have any such concerns.<BR><BR>Esp. since it is not a capital-intensive industry. They need people and little plastic holders, that's about it. Their costs of doing business are all service-based, and they have the flexibility to hire/release "lesser" graders as the market may dictate.

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>Part of my morning ritual is checking ebay, checking the boards, then leisurely cracking a PSA slab, trying to see how little damage I can do to the plastic...then throwing it away. MW has added a twist - sniffing the card for plastic odor. uh oh, did I violate chat room ethics?

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>even going there, MW <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> This is not aimed at you MW but if folks don't think that some dealers get preferential treatment then they just don't know. Yes, most cards are what they should be but I am positive some dealers get better grades because of who they are. Not all of them but some. I am not very adamant about many things but this one I am. It is that obvious. I know I have bashed PSA some lately but it is my honest opinion. I have nothing to gain or lose, they have never done anything to me, and I still buy PSA slabbed cards. I would prefer a card in a PSA holder over one not in a holder at all. I am not trying to be a hypocrite just voicing an opinion. We have discussed it many times before but we just need to buy the card and not the holder like Julie said. With all of that being said I have seen fewer errors in SGC holders.(not counting Olberman's Doyle)...regards all

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>now that the Federal minimum wage has moved up. Combine that with the difficulties in finding high school kids in SoCal who can actually read well anough to type labels for the cards their carpool buddies are grading and you can see why PSA is facing a crunch.