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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>I never talked to anyone who had any interest in graded cards. Mark Macrae, Lew Lipset, Terry Knause, Kit Young, John Spaulding.<BR><BR>I had probably bought 10 graded cards in my whole life.<BR><BR>I didn't miss them. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/PoetAsylum/frown.gif"><BR><BR>I like cards, not plastic. When I buy a graded card, I liberate it.<BR><BR>All you guys talk about--that's not true, you talk anout lots of things--but you spend an AWFUL LOT OF TIME talking about graded cards. Look at the thread on the new Beckett company (I lost interest in beckett-totally--when SCD inexplicably cme out with a better price guide.<BR><BR>Where do you store your graded cards? In a big tomato box? In a special made-to-fit holders-slide-in-container. Just curious.

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>"Smoke detectors without batteries." Somebody wrote an answering letter saying that "the tactile and olfactiory" experience of his cards was too much to give up. I guess PSA is doing a little better than they used to, but I don't buy enough to be able to form a good judgement. I DON'T REALLY CARE.<BR><BR>I have this T206 ex-mint Cobb, bat off. I've had it for almost 20 years. It used to be near-mint. But nobody would EVER think it was trimmed, stretched, touched up, bleached. Considering what yesterday's paper that I forgot to bring in looks like today, I'm amazed that it's still ex-mint.<BR><BR>I'm getting tired of talking to myself.<BR><BR> <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>HalleyGator</b><p><BR>Since all of my cards are graded, I can't really add anything. <BR><BR>I can, however, tell you that I am not really concerned about the GRADE that my vintage cards receive ... as much as I am in NEED of those nice hard sealed airtight plastic containers.<BR><BR>See, I am a klutz, and I will drop a card and ding a corner faster than anyone I know. I will accidentally flake a corner or something else. The slabs are essentially protection against myself.

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Just look at your back issues of VCBC. But I still have the majority of my cards (and all of my really expensive cards) graded. My reasons are as follows:<BR><BR>1. I like the way SGC holders frame and show my cards. <BR><BR>2. I like the protection from accidents offered by the holders.<BR><BR>3. Investment: As much as it pains me to say so, my cards now have a significant investment component. It is impossible to ignore it. Even my wife (who tolerates my collecting) had to recognize that having a significant asset not in the stock market or the bank was a real advantage over the last two years. The grading makes the cards much easier to sell and more lucrative to sell. <BR><BR>4. I am more satisfied when I buy graded cards. For example, I just returned three supposedly ex-mt cards with creases and missing back paper.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>I can honestly say I didn't have a single GRADED card in my collection until about 2 years ago. MOST of the things I collect don't fit into the graded categories (T5's, W600's, N173's, etc--lots of cabinet stuff). <BR><BR>My T206 set (minus 75-80 cards) are all ungraded save my PSA EX5 Sovereign Red background Cobb. Pretty much all my T206's are in EX. I can tell you from looking at T206 sales online on ebay that cards that are GRADED EX5 either by PSA or SGC bring a significant premium (to where it's worth the grading fees) to those that are just described as such. Now........does that make me want to grade 450 T206's......no.........can't afford to do that in one fell swoop anyway........<BR><BR>I did just get back about 40 pre-1900 cards that I had graded for my collection--mostly Old Judges and Buchners but a couple N162's and an N310 Mayo boxer I picked up off ebay. Now I'm up to about 150 graded cards--all but 5 are SGC and for many the same reasons that Adam (Warshawlaw) above brought out. I DEFINITELY agree that the black insert that SGC has is one of the keys in me getting anything graded. They do frame the cards incredibly well. A nice N162 with the fantastic color looks great in the SGC holder.<BR><BR>In addition, After grading some high-grade Old Judge N172's I had and getting 7's and 8's by SGC, I think from a financial standpoint if you have really high grade cards and EVER intend to sell them, grading is a good way to go with them. I don't necessarily intend to sell my N172's anytime soon (and I'll call first Jay......) but you never know. So, over last two years, I've gotten all my N172 HOFers graded at shows like Sun Times and in Philly. Just can't seem to feel comfortable shipping off $10-$15K worth of cards at a time to get graded (even though I work for UPS......). <BR><BR>Do I think that there's anything wrong with NOT grading cards........NOPE. By far, the vast majority of all my stuff will never be encapsulated (by me). I just for some reason have liked to encapsulate the 19th century stuff. I had a couple come back as altered (N300's with color touchups) but I knew that when sending them in--just wanted to see how good the graders at SGC were--and I was pretty happy with the results even though they didn't grade them.<BR><BR>Anyway.....after that diatribe.......I put each of my SGC or PSA graded cards in a team set like bag that is made for graded cards that are very inexpensive--that way I don't damage the holder when I hold them or move them around. I scan every card and store on CD and put the rest in boxes in a safe. And, as Forrest Gump says, that's about all I have to say about that...........<BR><BR>good question Julie.........plus didn't want you talking to yourself...........you might start answering.............

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Posted By: <b>David</b><p>Is part of the reason of the reason you have your cards graded, because of insurance? Just curious. I know you're a laywer and your cards have to be expensive.

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>"I wonder what this card would get?" And the SGC holders are very nice; I got a T202 in one, and kept the empty holder around for ages. It's very CONFUSING! Most of the people I named will buy graded cards, but only for sale, not for their collections. I dunno..<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/PoetAsylum/bounce.gif">

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Posted By: <b>HalleyGator</b><p><BR>You are correct. My cards are expensive, and so is the insurance (although it is much less since I began storing them in a safe deposit box rather than at home). <BR><BR>With all of my cards graded and then photographed onto my website for record keeping, the insurance company knows exactly what cards I have and exactly what condition each cards is in.<BR><BR>I pray that it will never matter ... but since I make my money suing crooked insurance companies ... I know what it will take to keep them from trying to screw me.

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>HalleyGator</b><p><BR>Aren't those big T202's SO COOL when they get slabbed??<BR><BR>The platic slabs are as big as a house!

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Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>I guess I am one of the few holdouts. I have quite a few cards in my collection and five or less are slabbed, and those only because I bought them that way and saw no reason to remove them from the holder. I have slabbed a few cards when I was planning to sell them; I thought I would realize more for the cards in plastic. I guess my major reasons for not slabbing the cards in my collection are:<BR><BR>1-Such a process would result in the collection taking up much more space than it currently does. <BR><BR>2-The slabbing process would be very costly.<BR><BR>3-I am reluctant to be shipping rare cards and risking loss or damage.<BR><BR>4-I don't feel the need to have someone tell me the condition of my card or verify its authenticity. I feel capable of doing both myself.<BR><BR>5-If you go beyond slabbing the cards in your collection and start down the road of the "I have to have the highest graded card" mentality then I think you get into the area of the hobby that I cannot understand. You become a dealers delight and end up wasting lots of money on trivial condition differences. Someone please explain to me why a PSA (or SGC)8 card can be worth multiples of a PSA7 of the same card when the difference is so slight.

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>I agree with you about slabbing cards. Too bad I don't agree with you about the backs of Mayos. That's O.K. The Old Judge Kelly is nice.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/PoetAsylum/eyes.gif">

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Supply and demand.....regards

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>My thoughts exactly

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>vorthian</b><p>&lt;&lt; 4-I don't feel the need to have someone tell me the condition of my card or verify its authenticity. I feel capable of doing both myself. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>As for the former, I know the most just and trusting person in the world would not be able to get $800 on a 1970 Milton Bradley Roberto Clemente if they called it "gem mint". Thanks to the PSA label, I was able to realize that kind of lunacy.

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I agree. I have almost nothing in my collection that slab graded better than near mint, and the ones that I have were fortuitous raw cards that I sent in and got back with high grades. If I was fleeing the country and trying to travel light, I guess I'd rather have a single Cobb graded 8 than 20 hall of famers graded 3 and 4, but for my collection, give me the midgrades. About the only place I'm being picky is in a few of my newer (1948, 1951, 1954) sets, but even there, a nice ex card at a realistically low price will always win me over. <BR><BR>Now, if you are going to sell high grade stuff, grading is a must. Not only do you get a hell of a lot more money, if you try to sell the cards raw over ebay, a lot of people are going to assume that you are fudging the grades or that there must be something wrong with the card.

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>on other people's stupidity, get your nice cards graded before you sell them. But if you buy and sell mostly ungraded stuff, you get less, but you spend less. And fortunately, there aren't too many graded 19th century cards--YET. I don't really think any grading company has an outstanding record grading 19th century cards. Er, or ANY cards, frankly. Not even SGC.<BR><BR><BR> <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>John(z28jd)</b><p>Any reason you brought back this thread Julie with no added comments?I thought it was strange that a new thread overnight got 16 responses,till of course i looked at the date.<BR><BR>Do you still feel the same way about graded cards and grading companies lack of proper knowledge with 19th century cards?

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>I keep 3 N162s in SGC holders--the chess cards, and my most valuable card came "sealed in Mylar," and almost everything gets put in Mylar--somwtimes visable from both sides. But though I would BUY a graded card if i really wanted THAT CARD, I would always liberate it, even though I knew it meant a monetary loss. <BR><BR>I guess you guys who are buying up my Colgans at such a rate are going to get them all slabbed, huh? I don't always turn a profit on selling cards, but the G.C. Miller I paid $25 for 18 years ago recently sold for $380--look ma, no slab!<BR><BR>Oh--as you noted, I HAD added a brief comment to the original thread.<BR><BR>Looking back for a good quote to start my book, like "What hit me?" or "What league am I in?" after the change from FCBB. The book is still largely hypothetical...

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>I would suggest going off somewhere where there are no computers, phones or other distractions - renting a cabin in the mountains for about 3 months. You could probably get a lot of work done that way.

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>Like Jay, I've been collecting long enough to say I don't need a grading company to tell me if the card is authentic or trimmed/altered but that's just me. I never had cards graded but do so now for 2 reasons:<BR><BR>1. Insurance. After a long talk with my insurance agent he said that - god forbid - I need to replace my collection that having them scanned (high-res), catalogued, and graded will help me get any claim approved as condition is subjective and a third party assesment will not only help there but also help assess current market value.<BR><BR>2. Resale. Every collector will have a different level of experince and many feel more comfortable buying graded cards. With eBay it is so much easier for collectors to buy and sell their cards grading takes a lot, not all, of the risk out of buying. With sales you give the customer what they want even if you don't totally agree.<BR><BR>

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>TBob</b><p>A) I hate grading companies<BR>B) I think there is too much subjectivity depending on who does the submitting of the cards<BR>C) I think Dennis Purdy was right on the money with his VCBC article<BR>That said, I am having all my E94s and E98s slabbed because of the protection factor. The caramel cards seem to be much more prone to be damaged than the tobacco cards. Why? I don't know. But after seeing an Old Put and a couple of E94s have corner crumbling after only having them for less than a couple of weeks, I am not taking any more chances. <BR>As Pete, Leon and others have preached for years, it is the card not the holder that you buy. I spotted some SGC and PSA cards on ebay this morning which are graded SGC 60 and above, PSA 5 and above, that look very VGish or VGEXish and I stayed away. On the other hand, there are bargains to be found in graded cards which are only "good" or less but which have terrific eye appeal.<BR>It is all in the eye of the beholder, I guess...

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>Hee, hee. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I've never heard of cards with corners that seem to crumble unless they were exposed to environmental factors that affected them or they had been cleaned or otherwise altered, damaging the paper.

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>...

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Crumble may not be the proper word. He might be better off using "flake away". I had this problem with a few e93s where the top layer of card, especially near the corners and edges, was noticable flaking away.<BR><BR>Jay

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>TBob</b><p>"Crumble" may be better used to define the contents of my wallet after I bought the cards. What actually happens is that the top layer of paper slides off. All the cards this has happened to have had top corner slippage (for lack of a better term). When you see really sharp caramel cards on ebay which unfortunately have a top corner which looks like it was sanded, it proves there are others out there who have had the same problem. I don't know if bleaching was at fault or not. I bought an E94 gold Jennings which arrived in a top loader. When I removed the card to place it in a mylar page of other E94s, the top left "disintegrated" and my EXMT Jennings became a GVG. This card was bought from a poster here on the board and I have no reason to think he was aware this might happen. I still have the card, now entombed in a PRO holder simply for protection since I used a tiny dab of glue to secure the color flaked piece back on the card and SGC and GAI kicked it back as an alteration. I bought an EX+ E94 Evers and this time the ame thing happened, as I was placing it in the mylar holder (this time it made it out of the top loader) the top right corner slipped. I became so discouraged I put this back on eBay sans color chip and it sold for about 80% of what I paid for it. Finally, and most sadly, I bought an E98 (used to be the designation now it has a tobacco number) Old Put of Clarke. The card came from the National where a friend spotted it and called me to tell me about it the summer before last. I told him to buy it for me. Nice VG+ish card. Bang, 9 months later in removing the card from the mylar page to submit it to GAI for grading, the top right corner slipped. GRRRRRRR. Now you can understand why all my E94s are in holders and I am beginning to put all my E98s in holders also. For protection. Period.

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>HalleyGator</b><p>Let me just say that it has been about 2 years since I last posted on this thread...<BR><BR>and all of my slabbed cards are still JUST THE SAME as they were the last time I posted thanks to the airtight sealed slabs. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><BR><BR>And I agree with the poster who discussed insurance valuation. My agent thought I was kidding when I told him what the cards were worth ... but once I showed proof with the SMR, the coverage was easy to get (just not cheap.) <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>knowing my cards up close and personal than having them insured for the highest possible price. May be silly, but that's how I feel.

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>Johnny</b><p> I fell in love with T206s for their historic value and artistic beauty. When I briefly hold a raw card in the palm of my clean and careful hand, I wonder about the first person that pulled it fron the pack in 1909 and how it made its way to me over the years. I never bought a card for an investment, rather a facination with the image, the vibrant colors, and the player's story and stats. I know every flaw of my little "works of art" and don't need a second opinion of why I like it. I am interested in protection however. Are slabs really air tight? Does that mean waterproof in the event that a fireproof safe meets a firemans hose? Did I read in a previous thread that I can purchase a similar black material that SGC uses to protect the corners from pressure in 3 by 5 non recessed screw down holders and does anyone know where to get it? Thanks to all for any information.

Before I started reading FullcountBCC
 

Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>Insightful and interesting takes by all.