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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=5210591 239&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=5210591 239&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V</a>

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Posted By: <b>jackgoodman</b><p>A card graded by CTA in a PSA category? <br /><br />edited to say: And too off-center to warrant a 7?

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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>I would agree, but I also question whether or not it's trimimed top to bottom.

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>REPRINT???? UNLESS it were graded by PSA/GAI/SGC I would not touch it. Has anyone heard of this obscure, no name grading company that graded the Young?<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>Charlie</b><p>We give up...What's wrong with it?

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Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>it's an off centered, trimmed, reprint.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>The card is way too white to be real.

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> The card is real. Trimmed? Maybe, but still genuine. Too white??? I have a few from the Southern Find that look just like this. Don't be so quick to pass judgement.... Brian

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>.....

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Posted By: <b>MW</b><p>Card is real. Possibly trimmed. Possibly not. Can't really tell from the given image.

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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>It doesn't appear to measure out. I know scans can distort but it clearly looks short to me.

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>The sellers name is about right, just one letter off - Steelerman (should be Stealerman).

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Posted By: <b>Joe</b><p>I lived in las Vegas from 1996- 2001 and frequented a card store northwest of the city. I'm pretty sure CTA grading company is out of California and they used to have on site grading in the store once and while. The store oners were originally from California and CTA grading was only known on the West coast. The do set up at the national conventions. <br /><br />joe

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Judge,<br /> Do you know this seller? Or are you just trying to be funny? Calling someone a thief you don't even know without any evidence is a bit tough for me to swallow. I don't know Steelerman, and to my knowledge have never purchased any cards from him, but he appears to be a legit seller selling a legit card. It doesn't have to be in a PSA, SGC, or GAI holder to be good.... Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS I don't usually get invloved in these discussions, buy it irritates me when people jump to conclusions without having the proper information.

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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>I simply stated that the card looks short. This card would be close to $3k if it were graded by any of the big three. Why would someone sell it for less than 1/3 that price when they could simply spend the $10 to have it crossed over?

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Posted By: <b>Darren J. Duet</b><p>The card appears authentic to me.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Brian, in the immortal words of Bill Murray in Stripes, "Lighten up, Francis."

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>i'm tired of the newbies posting and passing judgement (sometimes on long-time board members' auctions) on subjects and cards they seemingly know nothing about! It's really comical.

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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>I'll remind you that there are long-time board members who have "accidently" sold reprints and trimmed cards before. <br /><br />If you're so sure of it's integrity, jump on the Young for $950. It's a deal isn't it?

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I agree: take some of that awful mental baggage you're expending listening to other board members offer their opinions (that were requested by the person who started the thread) and buck up and buy the card which, in your estimation, is a wonderful deal. And then just flip it into a PSA or SGC holder and make three times your money. If this is too exhausting for you, perhaps you need to take a nap.

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Jeff and Anson, <br /> I don't believe I addressed either one of you on this thread. My gripe was with Judge on his assertion that steelerman must be dishonest or a thief because he was selling the Young for 950.00 in a CTA holder. I acknowledged that the card "might be trimmed", but that it would be tough to tell by the scan. Personally, I have no problems with questioning whether a card in any holder(SGC, PSA, CSA, CTA, GAI, or SCD, ETC.) is trimmed, but I do take issue with people make assumptions and jumping to conclusions. <br /><br /> Be well Brian<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />PS Jeff I always lighten up, but calling someone a thief or a liar is nothing to joke about.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Brian, <br /><br />No offense taken - but you absolutely did address me (scroll up a few posts to confirm this). I certainly don't mind a discussion, I just don't like being condescended to by someone who has no idea what I have or don't have (either in terms of collection or knowledge). I'm sure you feel the same. As for claiming that someone is a thief, I agree, it's in poor taste unless one has real proof. That being said, Judge clearly was joking (and it was a funny joke, honest). This is a hobby for us; can't we use this site as the frolic that it's meant to be?<br /><br />Peace,<br />Jeff

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Jeff,<br /> Your right I did address your concern on color in my post, but didn't single you out directly, nor did I make reference to your collection or your experience. I have a great deal of respect for everyone who contributes to the board, and don't believe I have ever tried to belittle or condesend anyone. I asked if Judge was joking or serious, but never received a response, so I assumed there was at least some seriousness to his charge, If not I'm sorry. I try very hard to treat everyone as I would like to be treated, and that was all I was asking in this case.<br /><br /> Be well Brian

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>Brian,<br /><br />It's been a busy day. Now I've finally got some time to relax and read the mail. <br /><br />It was a joke of course, if I were to outright call someone a thief then I would sign my full name and provide a commentary as to why I would make such an accusation. I suppose that in this day and age of political correctness I should consider any quick quips that come to mind. If anyone was offended, my apologies.

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>By the way, the card looks real but trimmed. I suppose that I shouldn't have to state the obvious there. If it's not graded by SGC, PSA, GAI, Vintage Beckett or SCD then I have a difficult time accepting the card as graded by a reputable service. I'm guessing CTA is along the same lines as PRO.

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>By the way, M-F there's a good chance I'm in front of my computer during work hours, during the weekend I sporadically get on line to check a few things. Today was a busy day so my immediate response to this thread was just "not in the cards". I don't live, breath, eat and drink the internet - I have a life beyond the virtual world that keeps me plenty busy and entertained. I do enjoy this forum because every once in a while you find that killer thread that really interests you. Newbie? What's that? I hate to break the bad news to some folks but I know of several old time collectors (have been around the collecting block a few times) with really nice material that don't post on line. Would you consider them a newbie if they were to make a comment or a contribution for the first time? I suppose some may consider them to be a "newbie" to the board but I'm sure they'd get over it. <br /><br />Be well, <br /><br />Fred

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>No question the Young is original, possibly trimmed at the top, but original.

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Posted By: <b>Al Davis</b><p>CTA is well known for its inattention to detail. They have never met a pair of scissors they haven't liked. if you ever get a card rejected by PRO (ha, ha) send it to CTA (Card Trimmers Anonymous).

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...in holders other than PSA, SGC, GAI, Beckett or SCD are presumptively altered, otherwise the seller would have had the card crossed over into a reputable holder, where he could triple his money. I wouldn't trust a dealer that operated any other way.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>While I am not a supporter of CTA (I have never sent anything to them to be graded, I don't know if they even still exist), I have had luck crossing over their cards to Beckett (2 for 2 on crossover). I had picked up the two cards cheap enough and they looked good in the holder so I decided to gamble and it paid off. These were not vintage cards.<br /><br />I have also had success crossing three cards out of USA cases. (3 for 3)<br /><br />Why they were initially residing in these cases, I have no idea.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Beckett? Is that a grading service?

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>While Beckett is scoffed at, on this board, as a pathetic vintage grader (deserved or not deserved), their dominance in the modern market should not be ignored.

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Posted By: <b>patrick mchugh</b><p>To me the card fits tight in the holder and is not trimmed. But a regrade because of high low centering would get a 4 at best.

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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>check the holder again. I don't think it is as tight as you think. <br /><br />Remember, it doesn't take much to trim off the bad stuff.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>That is great Richard, I thought PSA had the modern world dominated. You are telling me Beckett has a grading service and is dominating the modern stuff? I think that is super. Dan.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Ah, I see the problem:<br /><br />pre-war newbee = Richard &lt; Dan = pre-war old fart<br /><br />Dan: vintage &lt; 1930 &lt; modern<br />Richard: vintage &lt; 1990 &lt; modern<br /><br />I need to recalibrate my timescale...<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>Vintage = &lt;1990?????????<br /><br />Ok, who here feels really old?

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>is that the card appears to be real, but might well be trimmed; nobiody claims to be sure.<br /><br />I think I got that right. That's my opinion too.