Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I've not been overly interested in the recent posts about about forming a ethics group/membership/rules, but think it is a good idea if it concerns people. I don't if any headway has been made, but think it's mostly a matter of getting things done. <br /><br />I assume the main part is to have a reasonable and agreed upon set of ethics rules concerning restoration, disclosure, and perhaps other pressing topics, having a overseeing group and allowing dealers, auction houses join or agree to the rules and they get a seal of approval. There would be methods to enforce, oversee, etc. The rules would have to be fair to dealers and auctioneer, otherwise they won't join. Being a member in good standing would be a positive for the dealer, as they won't be picked willy nilly and it can give customers confidence.<br /><br />If people have ideas, details, rules, they can email them to me. I will look them over, discuss with those involved, come up with form formal ideas and let people discuss them. Other collecting groups, including autographs and fine art prints, have similar associations and ethics rules-- so it has been done before.<br /><br />I'm not an active sports card collector or investor, don't collect or hold special allegiance to or employment by PSA, SGC, Beckett or other grader authenticator or authenticator. I can also, if needed, web host the association's page and info of my web site, which is an informational site and commercial free (www.cycleback.com).<br /><br />I mostly see having an agreed upon, good and fair set of rules that people can agree to (join) or not agree to (their choice, no one's forcing anyone). Then there is a group of credible people over over see entity-- who is picked to join, watching to see if folks are following the rules, checking to make sure members are reputable, etc. There would be no fines, for force or anything like that.<br /><br />My email is linked above, and if anyone wishes to send me ideas I will look them over. I will also come up with my own ideas, which others of course are welcome to approve or disapprove.<br /><br />I'm willing to get this done, but will drop the issue if there is lack of interest.<br /><br />Thanks<br />David

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>David,<br /><br />Good to see you are willing to help--maybe the best thing to do is to have a conference call among those who have voiced a concern on this and believe something like this is needed.<br /><br />Jim

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>Nice of you to take the intitiative. I saw where Dave Hornisch suggested that an association or whatever you would denominate the group include legal counsel. For what it's worth, I'd be willing to devote some of my time to research or review any legal issues that might arise, either in formation or administration of the group, provided I'm not flying solo. Seems to me there are several lawyers on the board, some (many?all?) of whom have time on their hands to put toward the cause, dare I say, pro bono.

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>You know, I have a sneaking suspicion that everybody pretty much knows what is ethical and what isn't. Even the guy who sits in his basement late at night trimming cards knows what he is doing is not ethical. The real issue is how do we get him to stop?

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Buy from members who are in good standing. One reason people buy from dealers who belong to other associations, is because the dealers have been accepted and agreed to the rules. As someone interested in fine art prints, I recommend beginning collectors to buy from dealers who belong to well known dealer associations, as there are ethics and other rules these dealers have agreed to follow and the dealers have been approved as reputable and knowledgeable by the association. The membership lists often serve as a directory of who to buy from. To reputable dealers, being a member is a badge of honor that only helps sales.

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>There is sub-thread at the bottom of the "Report of the January 25 NYC Hobby Forum" postings (the last 5 or 6 messages or so) that covers some of this. I wonder if Leon can excise or copy those and move them to this thread?

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>we forgot to mention (barry- correct me if i am wrong), that at our NYC meeting, we had an interesting dialogue about having some shows, where ALL of the dealers had to have ALL graded cards...it might have been doug allen's idea, i forget, but it sounded like a good one, and it could happen at a premiere venue, like the Park Avenue Armory in NYC (i think we had a similar discussion a few months ago, but it does not have to be super expensive material, just ALL graded)...could be a great event.<br /><br />***this isn't a way to solve the problem of card doctoring, just a way to walk around a show and trust that most (hopefully all) cards under that roof are legit...<br /><br />maybe this idea can be expanded on and added to...<br /><br />MS

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Michael- I think Doug's idea was along the lines of having a show where only cards graded by the respected grading services would be allowed. I think the logistics would be pretty difficult, but it was an interesting point.

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry and Mike,<br /><br />I believe Doug Allen actually said it should be a show with only high-end graded cards which was an idea that began with our very own Bruce Dorskind.<br /><br />Jim

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>D'oh, per GoDaddy: BCEA.ORG is already taken.

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- correct, but only high end graded by one of the top three or four companies. He would not allow high end cards graded by those that encapsulate trimmed cards.

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>jim, if you remember, it was i who first said "high-end", and doug and the rest were quick to say that it DOES NOT have to be high end (Doug- correct me if i am wrong)...<br /><br />and after thinking about it, i do agree with them, does not have to be high-end, just as long as it is all graded, that in itself would be a first.

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>Dave G</b><p>"Jim- correct, but only high end graded by one of the top three or four companies. He would not allow high end cards graded by those that encapsulate trimmed cards."<br /><br />Correct me if I'm wrong in my following assumption, but most of the posts I've been reading have related to PSA encapsulated cards that might be, or are, trimmed. So your above statement would exclude PSA cards from such a show, unless PSA came out and stated with a guarantee they DO NOT encapsulate trimmed cards, and would buy back all such proven cards at the buyers cost?<br /><br />Food for thought?

Baseball Card Ethics Association/ Rules
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dave- well that's where it gets tricky. I think PSA would be part of the suggested show, since they are the largest grading service. I understand the controversy but I believe their cards would be allowed through the front door.