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1928 Fro-Joy Ruth Questions

Posted By: James FeaginI've been thinking a lot about this set lately and would like to get some feedback on a variety of thoughts and questions. 1.) How many percent on the open market are real? 2.) Is there a 100% fullproof way to distinguish real from fake? 3.) Can someone post side by side examples of real and fake? 4.) Will a legitimate grading company ever grade these? 5.) If we see a legitimate grading company grade these, will prices explode? How much? 6.) Does anyone else feel the pose on card #1 is really cool?

1928 Fro-Joy Ruth Questions

Posted By: peter ullman1.) How many percent on the open market are real? 5% 2.) Is there a 100% fullproof way to distinguish real from fake? ?? 3.) Can someone post side by side examples of real and fake? kinda 4.) Will a legitimate grading company ever grade these? bcg? beckett 5.) If we see a legitimate grading company grade these, will prices explode? How much? No 6.) Does anyone else feel the pose on card #1 is really cool? yes the sheet is fake...i bought it when I was in college in delaware in 1990 or so. it's a better fake compared to the colored ones but the color of the stock is wrong. the other i recently bought on ebay and I believe it's real. There is a lot written about these cards and I believe most of them are fake. Some of the good fakes are tough to differentiate but most are obvious. pete in mn <img src="http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/ullmandds/scan0003-2.jpg"> <img src="http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/ullmandds/febnewcards.jpg">

1928 Fro-Joy Ruth Questions

Posted By: davidcyclebackI've been thinking a lot about this set lately and would like to get some feedback on a variety of thoughts and questions. 1.) How many percent on the open market are real? Less that 3 percent. The original cards are scarce, but not impossible to find. Also, the 3 percent has as much to do with the quantity of reprints as the population of the real cards. There are tons of reprints, just as there are tons of reprints for the T206 Honus Wagner. The practical problems for collectors, is, while they may have handled 100s of T206s, they've never seen in person a real Fro Joy so they don't know what a real one looks like. It's a situation where many Pre-War collectors will trust their abilities to judge the authenticity of a $1 million card (Wagner) over a $500 card (Ruth). And, in fact, seasoned Pre-War collectors have no trouble identifying a reprint Wagner. I believe the Fro Joy Gene Tunney, which is the boxing parallel to the Ruth, was never reprinted like the Ruth. A collector can get a Tunney for comparison purposes or simply to own a Fro Joy. More than a decade ago Bob Lemke wrote an article on the Ruth Fro Joy fakes for SCD, and SCD used the Tunney uncut sheet for comparison, as it wasn't reprinted. 2.) Is there a 100% fullproof way to distinguish real from fake? Pretty much. Also, most reprints can be identified with naked eye examination. Some of the better reprints have design flaws, and some even fluoresce brightly under black light. For one of the better reprints, they can be identified in an online scan as the printing lines on back are different than the real cards. The black line box on back has breaks on the particular reprint, while the authentic box has no breaks (solid, unbroken line all the way around the box). From a more 'forensic' standpoint, the orignal Fro Joys were made using a period printing method, while the reprints I've seen were made with modern lithography. Even if these reprints were to look okay from naked eye view, examination of the printing with a microscope would show then not to be original. These particular reprints also had naked eye seen issues, including the black box and black light issue. So the microscopic view confirmed what others could see just looking at the cards with their own two eyes. 4.) Will a legitimate grading company ever grade these? I would think so. I hear Beckett grades them. Someone I know to be very knowledgeable about the Fro Joys Ruths, and who's opinion on authentic V reprint Fro Joys I value, says Beckett graded cards he knew were originals. I know many vintage collectors don't prefer Beckett due to their grading and related issues, but even their detractors will say Beckett is in general competent at authenticating cards. 5.) If we see a legitimate grading company grade these, will prices explode? How much? Probably. The cards are inexpensive compared to similar Ruth cards. However, when places like Mastro and REA auction them, they can get good prices. If a collector is interested in purchasing Fro Joy cards, he or she can purchase from Mastro, REA or similar. They will know what they are doing. I know of a collector who owned some Fro Joys from the Barry Halper collection with the Sotheby's tags, and they were fine. Due to the famous provenance and tags, he had no trouble getting fair money for them. If a collector is uncomfortable buying the cards, for fear that one way or another they might be reprints or that PSA will never grade them, there are lots of other Ruth cards to chose from.

1928 Fro-Joy Ruth Questions

Posted By: barrysloateThe set is so perilous the last one I handled was about ten years ago. It was an uncut sheet still in the original fro-joy envelope it came in. I probably haven't touched a single card in 15 years. Try to find something else to collect.

1928 Fro-Joy Ruth Questions

Posted By: MikeAbout 12 or 13 years ago, my wife and I were in an antique store rummaging through things, as we ofter did back then. We kind of got away from antiques, (furniture lamps, etc.) because, we have enough things, and the house got full. If you antique folks know what I mean. We are trying to downsize now. Anyway....I was looking through a small box of resteraunt menus that someone had collected, who had lived on the east coast apparently, as this is where all the 20's and 30's (man have prices gone up) from the Boston area if I recall. They were kind of cool, and being a pack rat and collector myself, I could relate to the individual who must have spent a lot of time collecting these. As I pawed through them, in the middle of the stack I found two fro joys. I knew what they were. I showed the lady at the front desk of this small store what I had found. I paid 15.00 for each one. I have hundreds of graded cards, but not these two. Now I ask you ladies and gentlemen, what are the odds these are fake ? I have collected cards for about 45 years, and pre war for about 20. These are the real thing. They are just fine, thank you, and they lay slabless in my drawer.

1928 Fro-Joy Ruth Questions

Posted By: leonThe only good comparison I have is the 1928 Babe Ruth Candy Co cards below. They are the same type of printing, from the same year, as the Fro-Joys. Notice the "grainy" look of the top one. The paper doesn't have the 80 yr old "smooth feel" either..."What does it feel like?" is a question I generally ask....hope this helps... <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1174861272.JPG">

1928 Fro-Joy Ruth Questions

Posted By: PaulMy SWAG is that about 5% of Fro Joys are real. The printing process must be photo engraving to have a chance to be real. The only way to know for sure if a Fro Joy is real is to have it in hand, feel the card stock, use a black light, & check the printing with a loupe & microscope. IMHO I think the main reason the grading companies stopped grading these, is that the overwhelming amount of cards they recieved were reprints, so it just got to be a hastle. They should be able to determine authenticity. I think they are great cards, & I especially love the portrait & batting cards. Below are some examples of fakes & real FroJoys: <img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/pgisme/fake.jpg"> The most common fake b & w Fro Joy. Notice the grainy appearance & lack of clarity. Also, two print defect marks on the frame below the top right corner. Card will not be photo engraved. <img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/pgisme/FJ_fake.jpg"> Same reprint with the broken line gaps near the corners. <img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/pgisme/repli_card_fake.jpg"> More modern reprint made by Repli-cards. The image has more clarity, & missing the two print defect marks. Also, there are no breaks in the lines on the back box. The card stock looks & feels like a 90's reprint, & will not be photo engraved. <img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/pgisme/real_fro_joy.jpg"> This is what a real Fro Joy looks like under 60x magnification. Notice the dark rim from the photo engraving process. <img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/pgisme/fake_fro_joy.jpg"> Here is a fake fro Joy under 60x magnification. Notice the absence of the dark rim. <img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/pgisme/1_real.jpg"> Here is a real Fro Joy under 10x magnification. Notice the lightest areas on the image such as the NY logo will be completely covered with printing dots with no patches of white. Other areas to check on the portrait would be his nose & right cheek. Some printing dots usually did not survive the reprinting process on the lightest part of the images. All real Fro Joys will be completely covered with printing dots with no patches of white. The Repli-Card reprints have more of the printing dots intact, but still some white patches. However, it's card stock is not even close to vintage. <img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/pgisme/fake2.jpg"> Here's a reprint of the Batting pose card. Notice the missing printing dots & white patch on his bat. <img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e195/pgisme/real.jpg"> Here is a real Fro Joy. Notice the image clarity & vintage looking feel compared to the reprints. I would like to thank David Rudd & his website cycleback.com for getting me interested in this stuff a few years ago. His knowledge & help is much appreciated. Sincerely, Paul

1928 Fro-Joy Ruth Questions

Posted By: boxingcardmanUnder heavy magnification, they look like the genuine examples.

1928 Fro-Joy Ruth Questions

Posted By: MikeHere are the two I mentioned earlier in the thread. These two were found in an antique store in an old box of east coast menus. <img src="http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p67/Ozzyzoe1/babefront.jpg"> <img src="http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p67/Ozzyzoe1/babeback.jpg">