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Posted By: <b>Sean</b><p>In your Opinion what do you think was the rarest baseball set issued.<br />My guess is Four base Hits

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>I would imagine an Eight Base Hit Card would be more rare <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Twice as rare at that!<br /><br />Sean, nobody has ever come close to completing Four Base Hits. Wouldn't a better question be: what is an affordable set that a kid on a limited budget could try to complete?

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...Barry, what is an affordable set that a kid on a limited budget could try to complete?<br />

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Posted By: <b>Sean</b><p>Yes thank you for that barry.<br />but i wanna have a challenge

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Ummmm...how much time do I get to come up with one?<br /><br />Maybe Sean could take a stab at the T215 Pirates set at the National. Perhaps nobody will see it and it will fall through the cracks.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>1923 Maple Crispette as there is only 1 Casey Stengel card.

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Posted By: <b>Darren</b><p>A complete old judge set.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>WITH the Big 4

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>#260 Nolan Ryan<br />#351 Yogi Berra<br />#590 Mike Schmidt<br />#591 Steve Stone (Cy Young card)<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Mark T</b><p>T204 set with all Square frames....maybe.

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Sean, unless you are the richest 12 year old on the planet, I'd stick with something a bit less challenging than the rarest set out there.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>A set of T200 premiums would be tough to complete, Sean. And I'm selling my one card with Bill Goodwin soon. But these guys are right. You're shooting for a distant galaxy, why not set a goal somewhat more reasonable. Then a more difficult goal, and then even tougher...<br /><br />Why not try for a group of Cracker Jack cards, say 16 cards, one from each of the American and National League teams. That would look neat, you could see the uniforms. Then you could add some of the Federal League teams. You wouldn't have a full set, but you wouldn't have to buy the Joe Jackson card, either. And, you'd learn a bit about the teams, who was on them, you'd know which cards you wanted to get, and which ones to avoid... for example Jimmy Archer's uniform doesn't show Cubs markings nearly as well as Frank Schulte's, which clearly shows the bear cub inside the big C on his jersey. The Schulte card would be affordable. You could avoid expensive cards with that strategy. <br /><br />I think your dad would be more proud of you if you completed college, got a good job, bought a home, then paid off the mortgage... than he would if you owned a 1914 Joe Jackson Cracker Jack card. Realistically, if you didn't finish college and were in debt up to your eyeballs, he'd be disappointed in you if you owned a 1914 Jackson.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>and good luck with that T200 premium...that one will be interesting to watch!<br />

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Posted By: <b>Glyn parson</b><p>Noone can say for certain what is the rarest vintage set. Collections or hoards of cards can always pop up so your question has no true answer. Collect something you'll enjoy dont be so concerned with some of the things like value and rarity that you seem to be obsessed with.

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>N167s have been known to pose a challenge.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Phil Garry</b><p>How about the Breisch Williams E107 - Type I's.............

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Everyone is forgetting the obvious one, t231. Only one card verified in the set and only one example of that card known to exist. I'm not holding my breath on a small hoard of these turning up any time soon.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Jay- I agree wholeheartedly (as I feather my own nest)<br /><br />I have always believed, by definition, T231 is the rarest ACC catalogued set. There is this one (I've shown a million times), a xerox of one, and one that I have been told about....and we probably won't see for a long time...if ever....though it came from a trusted source, John Rumirez.....A quiet but very nice gentleman. He's sort of hard to get to know but when he does know you he is very warm and hospitable. Even today when I walk up to him at the National he seems a little distant....just his nature though and not a nicer gentleman I have met.....regards<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1184431165.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>E94 with orange backgrounds. No complete sets exist.

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Posted By: <b>Dylan</b><p>Whats the most expensive this, and whats the rarest that? Just keep reading and all these questions will answer themself in time. Along the way you might learn about whats really important about the hobby...

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Posted By: <b>Ed</b><p>Grandpa's Attic. Complete set.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Well I didn't forget about T231s... but there has to be a set out there before you can collect it. I think someone could, with piles of money, connections, and some good fortune, assemble 16 T200 premiums. If Bill Gates decided to buy 90 T231 fans (just guessing 90 would be the set), how's he going to do that if they aren't out there to be bought?

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>The question was rarest set. True, the t231 is unique and personally I have trouble calling one card a set, especially when there is only one known example of that card.<br /><br />There are sets that are difficult to impossible to complete, such as OJ, K-Bats, etc<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Let's throw the w600 set in the mix. Lots of potential cards for this set with no known list of all cards known to exist, just cards that could potentially exist.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: <b>Foo</b><p>The Just So set is super rare - I knew the 1981 finder who sold his to Lipset, not sure who found the other group in 1989, just damn hard to come by.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>On T231 there is a picture of the Bigby card that is well known. It definitely exists or existed. John Rumirez told me, over breakfast last year, that he has one too....I believe him. That makes 3 the most likely number to me..and even if John is mistaking it's still 2. It's the rarest catalogued set by definition. regards

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>If a set doesn't exist, you can't call it the rarest set as there is no set. Set-wise, less than one is not a set. <br /><br />There is rarest baseball card issue, where one counts the cards in existence.<br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I never thought of it that way. Though, to that point, I think there are several sets that aren't sets <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.

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Posted By: <b>Sean</b><p>So leon do you know anybody who has a T231?

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Is Peter C posting as Sean? Just curious...

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>As far as Pre 1980 cards cataloged in the Standard Catalog or Beckett Almanac, the Fans Cigarettes must be about the rarest, if not the rarest.<br /><br />It can also be fairly argued that a set must contain more than one card. I looked it up in the dictionary, and I don't think there's such a thing as a set of one. Those one card wonders, while card issues, wouldn't qualify in the set category.

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Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>Niagara Baking.<br /><br />I've only ever seen one (which I traded away about 2 years ago)

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The German philosopher Immanuel Kant one said that many philosophical arguments are not caused by disagreement in ideas, but that the arguers define the terms differently. Kant said once the parties mutually set the definition of terms (which they didn't do in the beginning), they are often surprised to discover they agree with each other.<br /><br />Most of these baseball card debates don't involve debates over the population of cards. Most agree on the populations. The debates usually boil down to disagreements over what is a set and, often, what is a card.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>E125 American Caramel<br /><br />Several in the set are unique - Plank, Clarke, etc. Only two Collins known, 3 Mathewsons, 3 Wagner battings . . .

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>So which sets were Immanuel Kant collecting? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Zach Rice</b><p>I can verify the existence of another E125 Clarke besides the example that sold in the last REA auction. I was the under bidder on the card approx. four months ago when it appeared in an eBay auction.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Zach - thanks for the info. Sounds like you should be kicking yourself <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />E125 population<br /><br />1 known example:<br /><br />Plank<br /><br />2 known examples:<br /><br />Clarke<br />Collins <br /><br />3 known examples:<br /><br />Mathewson<br />Wagner batting<br />

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Posted By: <b>Zach Rice</b><p>Here's the humdinger of the whole situation, Richard, the card sold for $410.99. Besides the tab between Clarke's legs being partially gone, the card suffered no other real flaws that I can remember.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Zach - I am hitting my head against the wall.

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Posted By: <b>lutherlafy</b><p>I am new to network54 and I am just learning how to post pictures.<br />Please forgive me.<br />Thank you.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1184794007.JPG"> <br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>Welcome lutherlafy, that is a very nice card. Not an easy set.

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>Sean:<br /><br />It would seem your post was very timely.<br /><br />I heard a rumor from a friend of a friend of a friend yesterday that a collector in Olympia, Washington, Norris Mauritson, just completed a high six-figure transaction in which he sold, among other things, a complete Four Base Hit set <b>including</b> a previously uncatalogued player! I suppose anything is possible, but it seems highly unlikely. Does anyone have any experience with him that could substantiate the possibility?<br /> <br />Additionally, he is supposedly getting out of the hobby completely and divesting a lot of what he has accumulated over 40 years of collecting. If it's true, there might be some treasures to be had there!

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>I have dealt with Norris in the past. He is a stand up guy and I want to congratulate him on the sale. CARDS OLD has become CARD SOLD.

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Posted By: <b>steve</b><p>A thread just started talks about Colgan's Chips. The offshoot set, 1912 Colgan's Tin Tops, could top all sets as most rare, yes ? Steve.

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Posted By: <b>Zinn</b><p>I've dealt with him for over 20 years. Quite a character. Very secretive but is known to have a large amount of high quality and rare vintage material, especially 19th Century. Lists high value cards on ebay from time to time during the 10 cent lising promotions. <br /><br />Don't look for any bargains as he will negotiate you to death. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>Zinn:<br /><br />Known by whom? Have you ever seen any of these rarities personally?<br /><br />Kevin

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Norris emailed me about 6 yrs ago and told me he had complete sets of Four Base Hits, Lone Jack, Just So, Kalamazoo Bats, SF Hess, etc etc.... you name....he said he had it.....I say "Believe what you want to"......

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>From the point of view of a collector extremely interested in the hobby, you would hope that it <b>was</b> true. I mean, who wouldn't want to see all of those cards? <br /><br />All I know is that whenever I asked him to shoot me some scans, the items were always in the bank (along with with his <b><u>two</u></b> T206 Wagners) and he didn't want to take them out.

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Some of the world's great collections are held by people who feel the necessity to be secretive for their own safety. The fact that Norris kept his collection in the bank only shows his prudence so as not to put his holdings at risk. I have purchased many great cards from Norris over the years and hope that this sale does not eliminate the possibility of meeting this hobby pioneer some day.