Joe Orlando, Jimmy Spence, or Steve Grad, please come on here and tell me where I am wrong.
According to Heritage which listed certification by JSA and PSA on the listing, both of these companies passed and gave certs to a Thomas Sayers 1880's boxing signature to which their are no reliable exemplars in existance, and pulled the certs only when seasoned collectors notified the auction house. That's what we are dealing with these days.
How can they pass an autograph when even they admit there are no exemplars known? The auction house still sold it saying that both companies still believe it is real even though they pulled the certs because they got caught authenticating without exemplars. How can they make that determination that they still believe it is real if they have never seen one before? I don't get it and I get it at the same time. If that Sayers autograph comes to me, I say 'i'll take a pass on that one, inconclusive", Mark O. says the same, but those companies say "looks good"
on unrelated note
favorite youtube video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNQW-63OuE4