Quote:
Originally Posted by jchcollins
I don't know, what are you talking about? In a theoretic perfect world on paper, yes, fees would be even across the board and TPG's would employ no bias and never make technical grading mistakes in a discipline that at the end of the day ties technical qualities to eye appeal (to make an evaluation which will be considered subjective by most people the cards are being returned to). You have some PSA 7's that look like garden variety 5's, and PSA 3's in some cases that due to a hidden flaw can present like PSA 8's. This is nothing new.
Since we don't live in that utopia, TPG's like other entities composed of humans are frail and faulty, and frequently make mistakes. Like other businesses, they also live in a world of economic reality - and know that since their product inherently boosts card values, especially those of marquee hobby icons like '52 Mantles and Nolan Ryan rookies or what have you - that they can charge more for the same service on such cards and because of the value proposition, people will still gladly pay it. They can also charge more to weed out submission of fakes, even if that submission would be temporary - though I kind of disagree with you on that point, even with all the information out there - how many stories do we still get of newbies coming on boards or on social media with an "Is this real" question on a Ruth or Mantle they found in Grandaddy's attic? They would still get a lot of those - all the time - and undoubtedly the value tier preventing such submissions is a benefit to them. Consider also the "stated value" required to be declared isn't so much for them to ponder how much to charge you to grade it, but for them to have a ballpark idea of how much to insure your card for on the brief (maybe longer...) time it is in their possession. They are taking a substantially larger risk in taking delivery of, storing, and then handling and grading a $10k card than they are a $100 one. And of course we all know that PSA never screws up and damages any cards in their possession, turns an 8 into a 4 via careless handling, or flat out loses stuff. Right? Ergo, they charge more money to grade more expensive cards. I would imagine nobody who collects likes this, but you can hardly be surprised by it or blame them from a business perspective.
Look, I'm frustrated with TPG's too. I largely prefer raw these days, and don't submit myself anymore because of this. I just think it's unrealistic to expect today's TPG's to make dramatic changes or improvements to address some of what you mentioned. It largely is what it is and is not going to change. Maybe if the hobby could have a sampling of very trusted individuals above reproach and create something like the Philatelic Society like you have in stamp collecting to oversee grading? But that's a pipe dream. I have a love-hate relationship, because I do love a properly graded card in a nice slab. But that's become so hit or miss these days, I try to spare myself the disappointment of that not happening if I submit myself anymore.
|
John,
I'm with you, and was speaking as to what should be the case in our hobby. Just because it isn't likely to ever come about and happen doesn't mean I can't speak about it and voice my opinion. And I understand that the TPGs and others have done what they do to collectors to take advantage of us in every way possible and milk every last cent they can out of us. We live in a capitalistic society, so that is the norm. Still doesn't mean it is right, and something that we as collectors shouldn't hope to maybe one day change so as to take some control of our hobby back. Please don't despair and put my thoughts and ideas down just because it is unlikely they will ever happen. We have to have hope, right?
But you saying that having a flat grading fee will inundate TPGs with fakes is just weird, because even with variable fees, they still got inundated during the pandemic. They still have people trying to pass fakes by them all the time. And you keep pushing the point of the TPGs being in business so it makes sense that they do what they do to make money. Well guess what, if people keep sending in fakes to the TPGs to grade, the TPGs likely couldn't care less because they get to charge for each and every one of those fake submissions. So they would likely look upon such actions as actually great for their businesses, which is why I asked what you were talking about.
And as for charging more fees for things like insurance and damage, my experience has always been that when someone goes up against someone with insurance, and wins, they end up getting a check from the insurance company. In all the cases I've ever heard about where someone has gone back against a TPG for an error or damage, etc., I've never heard anyone ever say they got a check from the TPG's insurance company to cover the loss/damage. Instead, they always seem to say it was the TPG that just sent them a check. I may be wrong, but if not, why is that? Maybe TPGs don't worry as much about insurance as you may think, or pay all that much for it. Also, if they are so concerned about that, they should spell out the costs/charges in their fee schedule then. Grading = $XXX Insurance coverage = $XXX. I know a lot of collectors have insurance on their collections, just as dealers have insurance to cover their inventory. Do those types of insurance suddenly become ineffective and mute should a collector or dealer send their cards in to a TPG temporarily to be graded? And if not, why don't the TPGs allow people/businesses submitting cards to them to waive the insurance costs because they have their own insurance on their items already? What you're saying in effect is that in some cases people/businesses can end up paying double insurance costs, just because a TPG can argue for variable fees based on card values, and end up putting more money in their pocket as a result.
Again, I'm on your side. And like you I wish many things were different and better.