Quote:
Originally Posted by jchcollins
I'm not putting your ideas down. I was explaining why things are the way they are, which it was not clear to me from your statements that you understood. If I offended you, my apologies; this is the problem with web forums over conversations and inflection of tones. I assure you that was not my intent.
They got inundated during the early pandemic with ultra modern, and cards currently worth less than most people deem reasonable to grade. I honestly don't think the fakes thing is a huge deal, I was just illustrating that as an example of why higher fees would make sense to them. I'll give you that. If SGC charges 30 bucks to grade everything from a 2022 Topps parallel to a scarce Ruth E card, then so be it. I'm sure they'd accept more of their fair share of badly faked '52 Mantles for at least a time before tiring of it.
Semantics. I meant that someone, whether the insurance company or the TPG themselves - is liable for such payouts. If I'm the submitter requesting compensation for damage or something of that nature, I don't really care who is writing me the check. I don't know about fees having anything to do with double insurance or anything down to that level of detail. It plays into the justification for higher fees, but it's not the whole ball of wax. They are charging higher fees for higher valued items - as others have pointed out - because market forces allow them to.
Ok, so you are more of an idealist, and I am more of a realist at the bitter old age of 45. But yeah, I'm with you. Things as they are suck, and much professional grading anymore I think is a sham / ripoff for what it is, especially for true collectors who are keeping a majority of their submissions and not simply flipping them, or at least planning to sell more or less immediately. I learned how to grade in the early 1990's. Yes, standards fluctuate, but I'm more than capable of keeping up and knowing at least what "range" my cards are in. I guess I just have little hope that the current model will ever substantially change, because the powers that be have setup the financial model and cash flow for things to continue working as they are. To the idealist perspective, yes - we should demand better and force change. But who realistically is going to do that now? Who has the financial incentive to? What percentage of big wheel collectors with high valued vintage material are NOT already more or less in bed with PSA - if not because they want to, but because their financial interests in a pile of impressive slabs more or less demand it? We aren't covering new ground here. Many of these complaints, or at least the flavors of them have been around for 2 decades plus now. Yet PSA continues to be a cash gravy train with no end in sight, and their business forecasts all still proclaim the sky to be the limit. You'll forgive me for being less than an optimist. I'm happy sitting here with my raw, flawed cards for a fraction of the price.  |
LOL
John,
Not offended at all, just figured you may have misunderstood me and where I was coming from. I've been involved in all sorts of businesses over the last 40-50 years, and know exactly why the TPGs did what they are doing. If I was working for/with one of them, I would probably advise them to do the exact same or similar things they have done. I'm just pointing out how from an independent and unbiased standpoint, which is supposedly where they are paid to operate from, they aren't truly doing and providing what they are supposed to for the hobby. I'm really not being an idealist, just stating given facts.
The way these TPGs operate with such grading fees based on underlying value, instead of basing it on the actual work they perform, is absolutely indicative of biased opinions with obvious potential conflicts-of-interest. Add to that the ability of owners/employees of TPGs to have the companies they own and/or work for also grade cards for them, and the lack of transparency and information regarding their grading standards and processes that they convey to the hobby/collecting public, and the fault lies with all of us in the hobby for letting them get away with it.
The biggest problem is that Net54 types are an extremely small part of the overall hobby, and the influence of vintage, especially pre-war baseball, collectors in the overall hobby is minimal at best. The TPGs get headlines for grading T206 Wagner and '52 Topps Mantle cards, but they are really making their money off all the modern, Pokemon, and other cards out there being graded. If you don't believe me, go look up the numbers of cards that some TPGs supposedly grade in a month nowadays. Now go look at the TPG population reports for pre-war cards and start adding them all up. Compare those numbers to the number of cards these TPGs are grading these days and you'll quickly realize that pre-war baseball is not driving their profit margins. LOL
So how much do you think the TPGs really care about pre-war baseball from a purely business standpoint? If they are being truly honest with the collecting public, I'll bet that aside from the publicity aspect and not wanting to tick off major AHs and some of the more well-to-do collectors that are into pre-war baseball, probably not nearly as much as an average Net54 member would think.