[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

Hey Chase,

I remember, and for the record, you are not one of the people I was referring to with the change in thinking in regard to CSG. LOL

Like you, I was surprised with them when they linked up with PWCC also, but thought it would still be interesting to try to civilly discuss why they would do such a thing. I agree that on the surface, such a partnership didn't make sense for a newcomer like CSG, and doing so would likely not help their business or reputation. The anti-CSG comments and sentiment in that other thread were very quick to come. I was thinking that by agreeing to work with PWCC, CSG was looking to get as many graded cards in their holders, and then out in the hobby, as quickly as possible. If you want to compete against the TPG big boys, you need to get a presence in the hobby and get your name out there as much as possible, right? And probably the best way to do that is to have as many of your graded cards circulating in the hobby marketplace as possible. And even if initially sold through PWCC, once those cards in CSG holders are out there in the marketplace, no one really remembers or knows where they originally came from, do they? And as others have mentioned in this and other threads, they're planning to withhold doing anything with CSG until they see them getting more hobby acceptance and have their cards start being listed in more auctions by some of the better, more well-known AHs. Which makes perfect, logical sense. And all the more reason it makes even more sense as to why CSG would have ever agreed to such a deal with PWCC, even given PWCC's history, reputation, and ongoing FBI investigation. CSG was simply looking to get as many people's cards graded, as fast as they can and out in the marketplace, and it appears they took an educated, business risk, to partner-up with PWCC in doing so. And as has been noted by many forum members to date that it appears no repercussions are coming down on PWCC from their alleged wrongful activities (at least not yet), it seems CSG might have made a smart business decision after all.

But like you and others, I also hope that they do not later on get found to have engaged or collaborated in any conspiracy or other illegal activities, and end up doing a much better job than the other TPGs did in detecting and stopping the grading and encapsulation of altered/doctored cards.

The comments and automatic denigration of CSG by some members in that earlier thread was appalling. They simply tried, convicted and condemned CSG as being no good and literally engaging in criminal activity, with absolutely no evidence, proof, or indication of any wrongdoing, other than they agreed to work with and grade cards for PWCC customers. Meanwhile, those same people who immediately condemned and vowed to never use CSG, failed to make any similar statements about pretty much all the other TPGs that are actually known to have worked with PWCC before, and had been found to have encapsulated altered/doctored cards supposedly funneled through to them by PWCC.

I'm still holding out hope that CSG might be a positive influence in the TPG arena, and at least keep the other TPGs as honest, fair, and affordable for those that want to still use them, as possible. A competing Registry against the current de facto monopoly Registry in the hobby would be a big positive also, IMO. Only time and the future will tell. But by the lack of almost immediate, blistering comments, denigrating CSG when mentioned in this thread, it sure seems they're slowly gaining some overall acceptance in the hobby after all.

Hope you had a great Christmas and New Year's Chase.

Hi Bob,

Thank you and I hope you enjoyed your holiday season as well. I understand exactly the point you make about CSG needing to become more of a household name in the hobby and the only way to do that is to get their holders into the marketplace. TPG is nothing new and being the newest in a crowded field, even given some of the more popular mom and pop TPG, is not easy.

With as much public and law enforcement scrutiny that PWCC is under I doubt there was or is anything nefarious about CSG's "partnering" with PWCC. I am sure many things were considered with the pros and cons of pursuing the working relationship with PWCC as well as other options CSG could have pursued. It was a bold move. Wrote that in the other thread and writing it again. I do not follow PWCC auctions...never did when they were on eBay either so not sure how many CSG cards moved through their hands.

I would like to think that our hobby is an efficient one and think that given CCG's reputation in many other marketplaces, that CSG would have been just fine to do nothing but promote their service but obviously that was not enough. I am sure they were busy grading material but the key was to make sure the stuff they were slabbing was moving into the marketplace and not just siting in personal collections all over the US.

The risk CSG runs by putting their slabs into the marketplace via an auction as the newest TPG is that CSG's more accurately graded cards would sell for less thereby establishing a lower price point. The alternative, which is like watching paint dry, would have been to get fewer cards into the marketplace but sell them through a more conventional retail environment where the price point is established by the seller, not the buyer, as happens in any auction format. There is no short cut for time. I think it just takes time to build a brand. It does not help that all TPG are competing with the PSA Registry which clearly means you lose a considerable portion of the market.

One thing CSG should consider, if they are going to create a registry, is to allow some minority portion of the collectors' sets to be made up of other TPG cards. Maybe require all or most of the key cards to be CSG graded which might encourage crossovers. There has to be some incentive to the collectors so just not sure what that is. It might not topple PSA's registry but it might invite some of their faithful to consider CSG.

Take care,
Chase