Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabe
Sandy Koufax has none of the milestones. Addie Joss has none of the milestones. Kirby Puckett has none of the milestones.
The HOF asks for 10 seasons. Belle played 10 full ones and parts of 2 others. in 1995, Belle had 103 extra-base hits, the first player in 47 years to top 100 XBH in a single season. And he did it in a shortened season. 3 years later, he nearly did it again with 99. His numbers are *ridiculous*. Belle was outstanding or better in 9 of his 10 full seasons and was still good (OPS+ of 109) his final year limping around with a retirement-inducing injury.
If the argument is that his character should keep him out - but somehow not Ty Cobb (who went into the stands and beat up a fan) or Cap Anson or any of the other myriad bad characters in MLB history - so be it.
If the argument is that he cheated and that should keep him out - but not Gaylord Perry or Tony LaRussa (who benefitted from cheaters) - so be it.
But there's no argument that he wasn't good enough as a player other than "well, gee, he didn't play long enough because of a career-ending injury". And people only had that against him because they don't like him, as opposed to a guy like Sandy Koufax or Kirby Puckett. And, in Puckett's case, they just ignore the multiple negative incidents involving him because, hey, he smiled a lot on the field.
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See post 208 where I said I think he should be in. He is very clearly not in the top group of no brainers though; like the 4 named players who all produced more than double his value. Puckett and Joss are also both low end players and Puckett is often criticized as an electee on here. Koufax possesses some magical charm over a large segment of baseball fandom that makes rational analysis all but impossible (see the 10,000 mega thread). Arguing that he belongs alongside the bottom of the hall like Puckett and Joss is exactly where I ranked him.
I never endorsed the view that his personal conduct SHOULD keep him out; I said it IS a factor in him being out. There are many things that are true that I do not think should be true; being cognizant of the later is not to endorse the former.