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Originally Posted by the 'stache
Agreed. The Hall should be for the greats of the game. It's not the Hall of really, really good.
I look at a player, and use two criteria. Peak and length of career. Playing in the league for 18 years alone is not enough. Playing for 18 years, and being one of the very best players in the game for a substantial period of time should warrant serious consideration.
I also used to think that 3,000 hits, for example, meant a lock. Now, I'm not so sure. Playing long enough to get 3,000 hits is a feat in and of itself, but some guys are getting close to that threshold, or have passed it, and I just wring my hands while considering their eligibility for the Hall.
I look at a guy like Adrian Beltre. He just went over 3,000 hits. Great defensive third baseman. That and 3,000 hits will likely get him in. But people look at his being a no brainer. I don't. The guy was decidedly average offensively his first twelve seasons. He had one MVP caliber season in 2004 when power numbers were ridiculous (a 163 OPS + is real good, but hardly historic). With that season included, from 1998 to 2009, he had a 105 OPS +. That means he was only 5% above league average.
Anybody think he was a Hall of Famer then at age 30? Nope. Not close. Not even in the discussion. One Silver Slugger, two Gold Gloves, one single season getting MVP votes-even one.
Rhen he goes to Boston, steroid central, and his career takes off. Age 31-38 he has a 133 OPS +, including a 139 OPS + from 2010 to 2014. Boston and Texas, where steroids were handed out like Pez.
Now, he's over 3,000 hits. 462 home runs. Five Gold Gloves. That's a good resume. But do we just ignore the fact that he was a league average played for the first half of his career? Never won an MVP, and finished top five only one other time besides 2009. That's a stat compiler if I've ever seen one. A 117 OPS + career is not Hall-worthy, to me.
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Yet you think Ted Simmons is a Hofer? It took him 19 seasons to accumulate 50 WAR. About 2 1/2 WAR per season is very average. Thurman Munson would be far more deserving, 46 WAR in 9 1/2 seasons, almost 5 per season. I would take Bill Freehan over Simmons and his 44 WAR in 14 seasons plus 5 gold gloves and 2 top 3 MVP finishes.
He is easily the worst candidate on that list. He never finished top 5 in MVP voting. At least those other guys all had short peeks, won MVP awards, top 5 finishes, gold gloves. If you are going to elect a marginal candidate, it should be someone who was great for a short period, not a compiler who wasn't very good at compiling.
I never heard anyone ever say Ted Simmons was a Hofer during his career. Tiant yes, Trammell yes, Morris yes, Murphy yes, Parker yes, Mattingly yes, Garvey yes, Munson yes, Whitaker yes, Tony Oliva yes, Dick Allen yes and now with 96 WAR Beltre yes.