[BobC]

Originally Posted by Stupe the Second Sacker

This thread is about the impact to collectors and not the idiotic decision that caused the impact...just so we're clear. It's a bigger drag on the hobby than anything PSA has ever done, but talked about 1% as much.

Bob,

This has been talked about here on this forum before, and how the change in the lowered reporting threshold for 1099-K sales reporting on platforms such as Ebay using TPSOs (Third-Party Payment Service Organizations) will impact literally millions of people who sell on Ebay and other online platforms, and not just those in our sports card hobby. Most here on the forum tend to try and stick with just the card/memorabilia collecting hobby itself as the main focus when posting. Also, many dislike when a hobby related tax question is posed and I respond with what they call a War and Peace novel, in trying to properly and fully explain what the new or changed tax law means, and what and how they may be affected, and probably most importantly, what they need to know and do about it in regards to their collecting activities.

As a matter of course, I pretty much know which politician/political party is behind all of these new or changed tax laws, and the reasons and/or intent behind them, as I believe most others here on the forum do as well. So what real need is there to talk about who did what? I would be more/most concerned with what to do about it. And thus, I, and most others, try to limit our discussions to the effects and impact of these new and changed tax laws, and let someone else worry about who put them in place. There are other forums and chat rooms that I'm sure are more politically oriented, and would be perfect to visit to go into discussing the people and political reasoning behind such new laws and changes. The main focus on this forum is to discuss topics and issues that share information and hopefully help other collectors to navigate the hobby. I fail to see how talking about which political person/party may or may not have been behind the new or changed tax law that affects sports card/memorabilia collectors is in any way going to be helpful to them in regards to the hobby, whereas, explaining the impact and effect of these new or changed tax laws, and what they need to be aware of and what they may need to do in response to them, would be a bit more useful, wouldn't you agree?

In the future, simply do not mention a specific person, politician or political party. Keep it generic and no one will give you grief. Had you just said the government ruined the hobby by passing the new tax reporting threshold change, no one would have said a word. Meanwhile, pretty much everyone already knows which politicians, and their parties, were behind this changed reporting requirements passage.

And just so you know, this didn't actually change any tax law itself, just at what point these TPSOs had to start reporting sales to the IRS. I'd already stated this in an earlier post to this thread. The tax laws always called for people to be reporting their profits from sales of things like sports cards/collectibles all along on their tax returns. It was just that since no independent third parties were required to report all such sales to the IRS, that many of those people who going forward are now going to start getting these 1099-K forms (pretty much all of them really, in all likelihood) simply didn't report their sales profits on their tax returns, and are therefore literally guilty of tax evasion. But what I really don't understand, and hope you can explain to me then, is how by enforcing the tax laws already in place, and maybe stopping some people from continuing to cheat on their taxes, is that then guilty of ruining or damaging our hobby? Does it cause many people, and not just people in our hobby, to now have to do extra work in regard to their income taxes, yes, and I am the first to admit it will be a PITA for many. Why else do you think even the IRS went ahead just before this past Christmas and deferred this new reporting requirement for another year? Otherwise, everyone would have been in the middle of all this new tax reporting crap right now. And this isn't anything suddenly new. This change was signed into law back in March of 2021 if I remember correctly, and I believe I may have been the one to first mention and post about it on this forum over that same Summer. And now with this additional year of deferral for the new reporting rules taking effect, one would think that everyone potentially effected would have now had more than enough time to get ready for these changes. And also, since this was supposed to have been in effect since the start of 2022, but the deferral not known of till the latter part of December, 2022, wouldn't one think that if this new tax reporting change was going to damage and harm the hobby it would have already started and been very noticeable and done so last year? But unless I'm mistaken, I didn't see the hobby tanking or being hurt much last year at all, did you?

And as to your comments about how people keep going on and on about PSA ruining the hobby, they are referring to the direct effect that may be falling onto collectors from possibly buying incorrectly graded cards, or more specifically, ones that are actually fakes, doctored and/or altered. Collectors typically do not like buying and owning items that are not what they should be, especially when they or others have paid someone like PSA to ensure that their cards and items are real and as advertised. That kind of treatment can have a direct effect on how collectors perceive and trust/rely upon TPGs for cards they buy, and can thus turn people away from the hobby and possibly have them quit collecting entirely in some cases because of that distrust they now have. Now that could most definitely damage and harm the hobby. Meanwhile, the tax reporting requirement changes don't really affect any collectors buying cards at all, only if they resell them. So, if dealers/sellers are really the only ones directly affected by these new sales reporting rules, does that mean that collectors are going to stop wanting to buy cards and memorabilia? Hell no! And even if the dealers/sellers now have to put up with these new tax reporting changes, do you really think they'll stop selling if they still want to make money and get cash out of their inventories somehow? Again, hell no! PSA's issues and supposed faults would most definitely affect the demand side of the equation. The tax reporting issues primarily affects the supply side. And in all my years in dealing with businesses and the economy, I think that in the case of our hobby, the most harm and damage to it would come from disruption to the demand side. As long as there is demand, and someone is willing to pay for something, someone else will almost always find a way to meet that demand, and make a buck or two in the process, taxes or not. The inventory is out there, and if some dealers/sellers don't want to deal with the IRS, you know that that inventory will somehow eventually end up in the hands of others that will be willing to supply it to those that want it. And that is why, IMO, your statements about how both the alleged PSA issues and these new tax reporting changes are both somewhat equally damaging and harmful to the hobby, and thus should be more equally talked about and debated but aren't, don't really seem to be totally true and the same after all, at least not to me.

And most true collectors don't really collect cards to just turn around and resell them, they collect them to keep them. And yes, yes, I know that some collectors will use cards and items they pick up to occasionally sell to help finance additional card purchases. But ask yourself this question, if such collectors now realize that using certain online platforms and payment services will cause their sales to be reported to the IRS (and thus requiring them to be reported on their tax returns like they probably should have been all along anyway), they can simply look for different venues/ways to keep doing their side sales, but utilize ones that will not require such third-party sales reporting to the IRS. Like using Net54's B/S/T forum, trading in Facebook groups, doing private sales, going to shows, etc. That way they can continue potentially cheating on their taxes, but still get the money they want for collecting purposes. I never advise anyone to cheat on their taxes, but know that pretty much everyone does or has at some point in their life probably not properly reported and paid quite everything they should have for their income and sales/use taxes. LOL

I find it particularly interesting, and also quite comical, when I hear or see someone complaining about something like the government always looking to raise or add new taxes, but then when the government finally decides and gets around to doing something about it and instead goes after the tax cheats that aren't already paying the taxes that they should be, and finally enforcing the tax laws like they should have been doing all along so they don't have to raise or create new taxes, those same people start whining even more when it turns out they are some of the ones that have been cheating the rest of us all along by not properly paying the taxes they should have been to begin with. And I am not pointing a finger at you, or anyone else in particular, on this forum. Just saying.