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Old 05-12-2009, 04:59 PM
wonkaticket wonkaticket is offline
J0hn McD@niel
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,686
Default Even the so called good guys...ugly hobby?

I thought I would bring to light to the members of this forum a chain of emails I was privy too as of recent that I found very disturbing.

I was forwarded these emails because the content had direct discussions about me. I donít care to get into full detail as I think it has little bearing on the real issue that lay within the email string which was accidentally sent.

Basically Scott Elkins had issues with me being involved as a key member of the Chan investigation and felt I was taking undo credit. This is of course silly as I was the direct link to the FBI and it was my inspection of the cards which gave the needed evidence to visit Mr. Chan which of course lead to the snowballing of unfortunate events regarding him and the site

I was very clear on the team effort in my post which can be seen here.

I have no explanation as to why Mr. Elkins has issue with a positive thing done by a team of collectors for the good of the hobby but clearly he does.

Itís very clear that Mr. Elkins has issue with me and others which is very apparent by browsing his site above. I have no doubt he harbors anger with me as he has made all too clear. I have had my shots all chicken shots but he has had more than enough payback and Iím fine with it. I have little doubt a lot of this comes from the banning from Full Count in which I had nothing to do with the moderators made that move. It just happened Scott and I were in the mix at the time. While I find a lot of the stuff as vile venting and uncalled for vulgarity and false accusations he does have his rights to speak free as do we.


Recently on the other main baseball card forum (Full Count) Kevin Saucier insinuated that what we had done as a team Jim, Dan, Rob, FBI and I was not really needed as he assumed it was common knowledge to him and not worthy of discussing.

"Perhaps I am a little naive but I thought most collectors knew they were altered. I saw them on the t206museum was immediately suspicious and never really followed them. Considered it somewhat of a joke and a no-brainer. Feel the same about most of the stamped backed cards. Just "way" too easy to do!Now that I read the stories I am shocked to find that collectors were spending serious money these overprints. Hope they all get their money back."

Jim and Dan and myself disagreed Kevin did return and apologize that it was not meant in that way etc. Which we accept or at least I do as I will not speak for Dan and Jim.

Now that you have a bit of background we can move to the point of my post.

Kevin Saucier had recently emailed Scott Elkins asking him if he could ask Jim and Dan to lay off him.

----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin S.
To: Scott Elkins
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: He's at it again!

Perhaps you can send a quick email to Dan and Jim so they can get off the Wonka brow beat Kevin band wagon. I expect this kind of stuff from Jon but not from Dan.

I am just trying to fly below the radar and keep a very low profile. Besides they have no idea what I did or did not know about the investigation of this card.

Oh...btw, outstanding job! You and Jim are the guys who really did all the work.

__________________________________________________ ____________

This is crazy because I only responded after Jim and Dan responded and we all basically said the same thing. If he knew all along why not bring it up etc.

Hereís where this gets very scary to myself and many others I have run this by.

In the same email Scott forwarded from Kevin he left the full string of emails between Scott and Kevin dating as far back as April 2nd 2008. Upon reading the entire string I was shocked to read the following string and almost fell out of my chair with disgust and shock!

Subject: T206
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 16:42:15 -0700

Hi Kevin,
I hope all is well your way! I was wondering if you are still inspecting cards for people. I have a T206 with a United Cigars ad on the back that is printed UNDER the Sweet Caporal ad. Anyway, to make a long story short, some of the Net 54ers are trying to say it is printed OVER the ad and simply a back stamp overprint.
I was wondering if I could send this card to you if it does not sell and get your opinion on it - overprint or underprint? I will pay whatever fee is associated with the service.
Here is a link to the auction
Thanks in advance!
Scott Elkins

----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin S.
To: Scott
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: T206
Hi Scott,

Yeah I looking at that thread yesterday. Those guys are beyond cruel. Got pissed reading that whole mess.

Sure I'll look at it. I don't charge anything, never have...and I've looked at thousands of cards. Collectors are funny, those that send cards regularly show gratitude in other ways because they know I won't take a cent....I'm just glad I can help!

Good timing, last year or so I have been studying T206 backs and the printing. Just send it over, I'll give you an honest opinion:

All the best,
__________________________________________________ _____________________
Subject: Close Up
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 18:20:01 -0700
Here is a close up I just took at 800% with my scanner. I am going to try and post this pic in the auction (if it is not too large for eBay). One should definitely be able to tell more about the back with this pic (fingers crossed it works on eBay!).
Best Regards,
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin S.
To: Scott
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: Close Up

And here I thought you liked me because I'm a disabled AF vet.

I think it's safe to say that the word "clowns" should be replaced with "assholes". Before they judge others, some should take a good long look in the mirror.

Our secret - I have never sold an altered card but for those few "true asses" on 54, I have made sure that each already has or will have an altered card in their collection (some more than one) will be their guess as to which one. I'll tell them exactly that some day. Again...I didn't make a penny (it actually cost me) but well worth it .

Have to say with that close up scan, it's looking very favorable. I can see the SC over the cigar print. I'll save my final opinion for when I see it live but it looks like a no-brainer.

Some friendly advice...perhaps you should tone down your ebay listing with less personal statements. Wouldn't want to see it pulled or give them more fuel for the fire. Just a thought.

All the best,


Subject: This has your name written all over it!
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:55:06 -0700

Hee Hee
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin S.
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:48 AM
Subject: RE: This has your name written all over it!

Hi Scott,

I wish...but no. Although I can make many or some of the colors disappear and come close, I don't know of a way to keep the yellows, name, borders and the light shades. Yellow ink is about the 2nd to go. I've tried man many times to recreate this and can't come close to the detail.



ďOur secret - I have never sold an altered card but for those few "true asses" on 54, I have made sure that each already has or will have an altered card in their collection (some more than one) will be their guess as to which one. I'll tell them exactly that some day. Again...I didn't make a penny (it actually cost me) but well worth it
Kevin Saucier

It is no secret that myself and many others have questioned Kevin as to his motives and open interest in altered cards. Kevin has always taken the stance that this is for the good of the hobby and done to educate the collectors. For the most part we all have accepted that some including myself have asked why Kevinís opinion should count over that of the established businesses such as SGC and PSA. Some have also asked why the overall secrecy and nebulous nature of his posts.

Here are my main issues which I would like to see Kevin address here right away? As this has a scary parallel to Chan showing off work, hyping activities etc. Although Chan did this from anonymity vs. Kevin in here and in our faces.

1. Why would Kevin if he is a good guy admit to planting if you will fraudulent or altered cards in select individualís collections? Not only saying itís been done but explains that there was cost involved and this was a directed attack at certain individuals.

2. When Scott laughed and asked if the current card which happens to be in the collection of a fellow board member was a creation of Kevinís. Why did Kevin reply ďI wishĒ above he wishes he was responsible for fraudulent activities and doctored cards to fellow collectors why?

I have provided many past links of discussion that have been about Kevin and his services/talents or that he has been a major part of.

Talks about cards he altered getting past graders...

Facts, openly admits to doctoring cards and placing them into the hobby and certain collections. Has been a self proclaimed expert has reviewed peoples valuable collections and items. Has continually offered services to major auction houses.

When the original recipient of the email brought up the quote the response from Kevin was that the comment was an innocent inside joke about Harris cards I ownÖI find this absurd I own 2 Harris cards and have openly discussed them here

This was an unsolicited admission not a joke IMO. Please collectors be aware that itís not always the folks in the shadows that can be up to no good.

Now I have no proof Kevin has done this short of his admission above but that alone begs the question why would one ever say such a thing?

Unless Kevin has a real good explanation Iím very cautious of him and what he may have leaked out into the hobby as of today based on those comments. But I am willing to hear Kevin out and await his response as I ask all of us to do.



Last edited by Leon; 05-13-2009 at 02:42 PM. Reason: edited out link to cockfighting board
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