Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
Who has won champrionships consistently without other great players? Not Russell. Not Wilt. Not Kareem. Not Magic. Not Jordan. Not Bird. Not Oscar. It's hardly an argument against LeBron that Cleveland was not terribly successful. How successful were Oscar's teams until he played with Kareem? How successful were Kareem's Lakers before Magic came on the scene? Wilt usually lost as a Warrior/76er, but is anyone really saying Wilt is not in the very few best players ever? Russell had Cousy and Havlicek and numerous other HOFers, and played against a much smaller league besides. Jordan didn't win for quite a few years, until Pippen. Specious argument.
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And how did Pippen do without Jordan? Or for that matter the Celtics without Bird or the lakers without Magic?
All three of those guys made a team of very good players great. One interesting thing is that the three main players of each team have a lot of career overlap. That makes it hard to compare before/after without the problem of someone being at the end of a career.
The closest I can get is Parrish. About a .500 shooter before Bird, And above .540 with Bird.
Of course the opposite argument holds, Bird might not have been as good without Parrish and McHale.
Miamis two main players besides James have been a bit less productive since James arrived.
Steve B