Well, All Star voting should be something for later in the discussion about determining a player's Hall worthiness, not a baseline for their election. Lots of good players get excluded because they play for teams with smaller voting bases. Likewise, many players get voted in when they don't deserve it based on their reputation and past performance. Robin Yount was only an All Star
three times. We're talking about arguably one of the five best shortstops to ever play the game. If he doesn't blow out his shoulder in 1984, there's no argument to even be made that he's not top five. I watched him in his prime, in person, and the guy was a spectacular. Between 1980 and 1984, he was worth 32.0 oWAR, and 7.6 dWAR, and that's with 53 games not played in 1981 because of the player strike. He didn't even get voted to the game in 1989 when he was the American League MVP for the second time--as a center fielder.
I think Trammel deserves it. Absolutely. And, I think Lou Whitaker deserved it long before Jack Morris. I'm sorry, dominant pitcher of his era? A near 4.00 career ERA in an era when scoring was down doesn't cut it for me.
Ted Simmons deserves to be in the Hall. He's a second-tier Hall catcher, in my opinion. My thoughts on his worthiness are summarized
here
Dale Murphy? Great player, and in his prime he was one of the elites of the game. I think his later career kills his Hall chances. After 1987, his age 31 year, his career tanked. Still, back-to-back MVP Awards, five Gold Gloves (metrics show these can be debated, however), and four Silver Sluggers warrant consideration. Had a pretty good 1980 season (33 HR, 135 OPS +), and then after a down 1981, Murphy went on a tear. '82-'87, he had a 145 OPS +, scored 660 runs, hit 218 home runs, drove in 629 runs, stole 105 bases, and walked 542 times. Compare that to Mike Schmidt's production at the same time. 216 home runs, and a 152 OPS +.
A 46.2 career WAR is going to hurt Murphy. But how accurate are his defensive metrics? As has been referenced above, I'm finding some inconsistencies in historical dWAR metrics. You're going to tell me that Roberto Clemente in right field was only worth 12.1 dWAR for his eighteen year career, one with twelve Gold Gloves? I think not.
Interesting discussion, guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog
Trammel was an all-star six times, never more than twice in a row and finished in the top six for MVP once.
Garvey was an all-star eight years in a row (and was an AS ten times); and finished in the top six for MVP five times (winning it once).
They each won four Gold Gloves.
Garvey was just the more dominant player of his era.
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