[KMayUSA6060]

*Cracks knuckles in preparation to type... a lot*

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I want the gun show loophole to be closed. I don't think anyone should be able to walk in to a gun show, buy a gun, and walk out with it right then without any scrutiny. That is ridiculous in my opinion So are bump stocks and banana clips. That isn't for self-defense and it isn't for hunting. That's just for killing folks. There is no other reason than to shoot faster and with more bullets.

But people with guns can kill other people far more quickly and far more effectively. Therein lies the problem.

Just like every constitutional provision, the 2nd amendment doesn't guarantee you absolute right to own any weapon you want. Why do you need an AR? I have hunted all my life and have never owned, used, or felt I needed, an AR. Obviously I'm missing something.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the 2nd Amendment be repealed, although if you look at the historical basis for its passage, it seems pretty clear that the primary reason it was passed no longer exists . Be that as it may, I'm certainly not advocating that. I am advocating that we do stuff, like serious background checks, getting rid of the gun show loophole, and that we restrict bump stocks and huge clips. Unlike the NRA, I don't think that's unreasonable. I just want my kids to be safe.

- Most if not all firearms dealers at gun shows are licensed, meaning to purchase a firearm, you have to fill out a 4473, go through the NICS background check process, etc. Also, what mass shooting has been carried out using a gun legally purchased at a gun show? And what is a "serious" background check, compared to the very thorough background check system that is currently in place? What is a banana clip? Do you mean an AR magazine? Would banning those "banana clips" (AR magazines) have prevented Santa Fe? Bump stocks aren't a problem, either. They're incredibly inaccurate, can destroy the guns they're attached to, and can be mimicked very easily using your thumb or household items.

- Yeah, just like an assault buggy (I mean vehicle) plowing through a crowd, or a knife attack against defenseless people, or a bomb attack using an assault pot (I mean a pressure cooker), or a plane using an assault bird (I mean plane). Boston Bombings, 9/11, NYC Home Depot Truck, London's knife attack problem & vehicular terrorism problem, etc.

- What's so bad about an AR15? Mine has never killed a single living thing. I must have gotten lucky and purchased an already-well-trained AR15. In all seriousness, would banning AR15s have prevented Santa Fe? What about the AR15's mechanical components and functionality differs it from any other semi-automatic weapons? You have the freedom to choose not to on an AR15, and I will not advocate to take that freedom away from you. But why, in return, do people advocate to take my RIGHT to own an AR15? Heck, I actually want an AR10 here soon. Helluva lot of fun to shoot, and WAY more powerful than an AR15. Then again, I'm a lawful individual, and would only ever shoot someone or a living thing in self defense with it (unless I take it hunting, but I prefer a classic bolt action for hunting; just a personal preference).

- Actually, you're wrong. There have been several political figures and celebrities who have come out against the 2nd Amendment altogether, pushing for its repeal. The primary purpose of the 2nd Amendment was to protect its citizens against a tyrannical government. That is a timeless purpose, proven true over and over again by people like Hitler, Mao, Kim Jung Un, Stalin, Castro, etc. And please don't bring the NRA into this. Not one single individual that has committed a mass shooting has been a NRA member. The background check system that's currently in place was proposed by the NRA.

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Even the NRA wasn't always anti gun-control. In most of our lifetimes the NRA advocated FOR gun control.

In the 1930s, the NRA helped pass bills that regulated submachine guns and sawed-off shotguns, banned some gun buyers and made gun dealers register with the government. Its cooperation continued following the political and racial assassinations of the 1960s.

In the 1970s, the NRA’s public image began to change after a law-breaking member was killed by an ATF agent. In 1977, it adopted a policy opposing all forms of gun control. Despite this, after the attempt on NRA member President Ronald Reagan’s life, the NRA reluctantly supported the 1994 Brady Bill, which required a waiting period and background checks for handgun purchases. The bill included a 10-year ban on assault weapons. When the ban expired in 2004, the NRA had gained enough political clout to prevent its renewal.

Do a search on the worst mass shootings in US history. Take note of how many occurred after those key dates. Namely 1977 and 2004 the results might or might not shock you.

The NRA being bought and paid for by big business, which is in turn buying and paying for our politicians is the problem, and frankly I don't see that as a political opinion, but maybe I'm being naive.

I'll leave you with this thought, from a former president of the NRA Karl T. Frederick, a 1920 Olympic gold-medal winner for marksmanship:

“I have never believed in the general practice of carrying weapons. I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.”

So where does the modern NRA attitude come from???

Probably a dumb post to make for someone in business, and my intent isn't to piss off one side or please the other. Merely to call attention to the fact that games are being played and our children are apparently the expendable pawns on the board.

- Proof that they can be reasonable. Sawed-off shotguns are somewhat legal now, with variations being used as home protection weapons. You still have to be 21 to purchase one, though.

- Interestingly enough, the Department of Education was formed in 1979. Mass/School shootings have increased since, if I'm not mistaken. Coincidence?

- The NRA has donated $200M to politicians in the last 20 years. For comparison, unions donated (mostly to Democrats) $1.7B in 2016 ALONE. Planned Parenthood said they are committing, what, $30M to political campaigns this fall ALONE?

- You're right, games are being played, but it isn't by the NRA. None of the proposals spewed by the pro-gun control crowd would have prevented any school shootings. In fact, the proposals by the pro-2A crowd HAVE proven to be effective and preventative - more armed security and the overall hardening of soft targets. Look at the school shooting that occurred in Illinois last week or so. Oh wait, there wasn't one, because an armed resource officer confronted the would-be-school-shooter.

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

David,

I disagree about the NRA not having anything to do with what's going on. It has a lot to do with it IMO.

I agree that mental illness is a huge problem. Its a problem that we as a society have never addressed very well. In nearly every state, the mental health agencies are among the most underfunded. They don't have the resources or the capacity to address the problem. Here, the "solution" is to dump them out on the street in some city other than the one they came from and let someone else deal with them. That isn't much of a solution.

The very fact that our kids now have to go through active shooter drills at school is nearly beyond my ability to comprehend.

I'm not advocating outlawing guns. Never have, never would. But for God's sake, there is no reason I can think of why we shouldn't at least try to do a better job of regulating both them and the people who own them. Just like voting, I have always thought that gun ownership was both a right AND a responsibility. Particularly now, I feel like the argument about the right to own guns far outweighs the responsibility part. In my estimation, it should be the other way around.

- The NRA has nothing to do with any of these shootings. Nothing. Zip. Zero. Nada. None of the shooters are NRA members, and every single one of the shooters is unlawful, when the NRA advocates for lawful and responsible gun ownership.

- Mental health is a massive problem, but why now? What has changed in society to cause so many kids/people to be diagnosed with mental disorders? My theory is there's a breakdown in our education system. What is taught in schools is detrimental to society. Actual skills such as Home Economics and Woodshop have been scrapped to shove testing subjects down the throats of our youth in order to "beat China". Life lessons and morals have been removed from our schools, with the PC culture taking over. American patriotism is frowned upon. Kids aren't taught to think for themselves, and what's worse, some of the subjects are taught incorrectly to begin with. Some of these kids come from broken families, a problem that stems from failures in government policy (shocker). The cycle is perpetuated over and over again. Not to mention the drug epidemic in this country, which enhances the problem. I believe most if not all the mass/school shooters have been on some sort of anti-depressent/anti-anxiety medicine. Our healthcare system blows (government ran), and is very prescription-happy.

- This is a bit off-topic, but kids back in the day went through nuclear bomb drills. I understand fully that our kids shouldn't have to go through either, but multiple generations have gone through some sort of attack preparation. It never hurts to be prepared. The issue is, action isn't taken to harden the schools in the process nowadays.

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

22 school shootings in 20 weeks.

- Also, this is false. Did you get this number from CNN?

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Look, blaming the NRA or guns isn't going to prevent the next school shooter. That's a fact. These criminals, by definition, do not follow the laws on the books. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, and that is first and foremost what needs to be done - putting more good guys with guns in our schools.

After that, the next step is to look at where the breakdown is in our society that is causing the mental issues. I stated the basics of my opinions above, and will refrain from going into anymore detail as I've already probably exhausted Leon's patience enough.

There are 300+ million guns in this country. If they were the problem, we'd know. Blaming them only takes time away from working on actual, effective solutions to protect our kids.