Complete T208 Set to be sold by Legendary in November

[slidekellyslide]

Anyone know whose set this is? Obviously there are consignors out there who still trust mastro/legendary with high dollar consignments.

[barrysloate]

I saw that Dan. That is one really big time set. I imagine it will go for well into six figures.

[tedzan]

My booth at the Philly Show is adjacent to Legendary's booth. As I started setting up yesterday, Ron Oser calls over to
me to check-out their latest offering. I replied, as I was organizing my "junk"....."whatever it is Ron, it can't possibly top
out your 49-card DRUM find back in March".

Ron responds...."you want to bet on that, Ted ?"

So, I drop everything to check out their display. Gee, I was really amazed. In the 33 years, since I have returned to this
glorious hobby, I have never seen a complete 18 card T208 set. Just fabulous !


TED Z

[Leon]

I would bet (if I were a betting person) that the 25k price realized, of the last one sold, had something to do with the set coming out. And I have no knowledge whatsover....it's a guess.

[murcerfan]

Imagine what it woulda brought back in '05-'07

surely there will still be a battle to land it...what's the condition? how many cards are badly miscut ?

[E93]

Cards like those are doing as well in '09 as they did a few years ago.
JimB

[murcerfan]

you mean cards like 359's ? or cards that never ever come around ?

either way....thanks for setting me straight.

[cfc1909]

Our booth was next to the Legendary booth and we were told that exactly. The consignor saw the price realized at the Cleveland auction.

The condition of the cards-I think the best was a 4.5 and the worst was the Mack -a 1. Overall the cards looked very nice and to see 18 at one time was a sight...

[E93]

Murcerfan,
I mean super-rare and desirable cards where this may be the one chance to get them in the next twenty years.
JimB

[rhettyeakley]

I just read in REA email they sent out to consignors that they will also be having 15 different T208's in their next auction (albeit quite a ways off still). It looks like that auction result Leon made reference to has caused them to come out of the woodwork.

And we thought they were rare!

-Rhett

[barrysloate]

Take the one sold at the National auction, the 18 Legendary has, and REA's 15, and that's 34 up for auction in a period of about nine months. Now that is very strange.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Take the one sold at the National auction, the 18 Legendary has, and REA's 15, and that's 34 up for auction in a period of about nine months. Now that is very strange.

Maybe it's all hype? Maybe the T208's are as common as Fleer updates....

btw, every time I say 25k you correct me, Barry. I think it might have been 20k-21k the last time one sold....and I guess that was still enough to make 34 more come out of the woodwork. I know one of them that isn't coming out

[barrysloate]

The one sold by Legendary Auctions in their July 2009 sale went for $20,400.

[Jay Wolt]

Barry is correct, here is the card.
and no! its not mine

[chaddurbin]

to the veteran t208 collectors out there, are t208:d359:e104=e92:e101:e102? i believe the e92s/e101s/e102s were all printed at the same place, just different backs for various distributions...can t208s/d359s/e104s be the same? i've never handled a t208 in person but d359 and e104 have a similar thick(er) stock than most other e cards.

[rman444]

q - you going to start hoarding all them e104 blank backs?

[Steve D]

I hate to bring up this question and sound like some sort of conspiracy theorist, but is it possible that someone could take a group of E104 blank backs (whose fronts are identical to the corresponding T208s), and have the backs printed in T208 fashion?

If this were so, would PSA or SGC be able to catch it?

And to answer any questions, no, I haven't tried to do this, nor do I want to. E104/D359/T208 cards are too expensive for my sardine-sized budget. I'm just wondering if this "flood" of T208s suddenly hitting the market might portend some hidden motives/shenanigans.


Steve

[Jacklitsch]

I don't know about the 18 but the provenance on the 15 in the Spring REA is impeccable.

[Rich Klein]

And something I learned from the good Dr. I'm probably paraphrising this badly.

If nothing gets traded at a lower "price guide" price point and is tough; maybe the price in the guide is too low and only higher prices. With these cards; no one ever sold them until the REA and then the Legendary sale and thus when the higher prices were realized than many people wanted to take advantage (although maybe only a couple actually OWN these cards)

Rich

[murcerfan]

...and does the inexplicable difficuty of the Dygert Williams Baking card correspond in Fireside ?? are the greenies tougher in T208 as in D359 ?

...and as for conspiracy theorems...was it this set that needed Dygert to complete...and/or set a market benchmark? seeing that the same card only brought 3,500 in 2004, albeit unslabbed and naked.

[Leon]

I will take a wild stab and say all of the Firesides are equally rare. I think the Dygert was just the first one out in a long time. I don't remember one in the last several years in REA but I might be forgetting one....It will be interesting to see how the set and the large group do...

[murcerfan]

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2004/163.html

[Leon]

Thanks Dave...It was 5 yrs ago and I just didn't remember. I know who won it though. I just forgot where he got it. Mine came from a Lipset auction about 8-9 yrs ago (I think)....regards

[murcerfan]

and yes it will be interesting to see $$$ that shows for the set.
is it being sold as a set? or indies?

it will also be very interesting to see which ones are missing from REA's near set.

[E93]

I know the source of the fifteen going to REA. They are from a very old (and incredible) collection.
JimB

[murcerfan]

ah...I see.

so I guess the three MIA will be Plank, Lord and Morgan.

[paul]

I'm sure this is a naive questions. But are T208s significantly rarer than the Williams and Rochester Baking cards?

[rman444]

It sounds like there are around 8 of each T208 around? I would guess maybe 12-15 or so of each Williams and another 15-20 of each Rochester?

[pro9]

0When is the last time somebody has seen a Nadja back e104-1?

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by pro9

0When is the last time somebody has seen a Nadja back e104-1?

I have never seen or heard of a E104-1 combination with the "World's Champions" tag line on front with the Nadja back. I have only seen blank backs on the E104-1s with the "World's Champions" tag line on front(similar to the D359 and T208).

If you are talking about the ones without the "World's Champions" tagline on the front, E104-1s do come with the Nadja back. They are tougher than the blank back E014-1s without the tagline, but they are out there.

[chiprop]

By far, my favorite images! The guy (I'll assume it's a guy) who purchased the Legendary t208 overpaid by a bunch. If REA sells them as individual lots, I would guess they go under $10k for a common even in EX condition.

Rman- your numbers sound right. I know of one other complete set and two other guys who have 1 example. Very tough, but obviously obtainable if you are patient.

Wes... I was gonna say that.

I think the d359's and e104's have been beaten down lately, but they will do OK in the future. It should be a more popular set in that it has a great set of images, players, and they are available in bread, tobacco, or candy form. Unfortunately, this is as close as I will come to a t208...

[murcerfan]

...and how do we know that these "Nadja's" with 1910 Champion overprints aren't blank back d359's or even T208's ??

[rman444]

Wow, DK! A third complete set and a few more stragglers out there. I think Jay Behrens had around 6-8 of them as well? Sounds like I was a little low on my estimate of the T208 population.

I think typically we double what is known so if there are around 4 of each known, the total that exist may be around 8 of each card?

That is a small number, but certainly not as tough as some of the other neighboring T-sets:

T214 Victory
T215 Pirate
T216 Virginia Extra

maybe even

T215 Red Cross
T216 Mino

[Wesley]

The population for any given card in the T208 set might be higher than singles from the other rare sets, but because the T208 set is smaller (18 players), the overall population for the T208s is lower.

So many of the T208s are in the complete sets, that in order for type collectors to find a single example, they really had to pay super high prices in the past. It will be interesting to see if this is still the case with the introduction of so many into the marketplace in the next few months.

[rman444]

Ah, yes. The old arguement of type collector vs. player collector. If all you want is the back, then you have to pay through the nose. If you care about what is on the front, then you have to overpay because of those crazy back collectors.

What kind of bizarro world is that.

A Ty Cobb card from a set of 15, where there are 10 known of each will cost me more than a Ty Cobb card from a set of 200 where there are only 2 known of each.

Nuts.

[slidekellyslide]

So is this the first complete set to surface for sale since the mid 90s sale of Don Steinbach's set? Is this Steinbach's set?

[ValKehl]

I, too, experienced the pleasure of drooling over this T208 set at the Philly Show. From talking with Ron Oser and from something I read (I can't recall exactly what it was) at the Legendary booth, I got the impression that these cards will be auctioned individually. So, I will dream of adding one of these cards to my type collection, that is, until the the time that the actual bidding exceeds my budget!

[chaddurbin]

wes...how do you win every thread you post in? poast more please!

rman, i agree....i'm not rich enough for back collecting. a difference of 20k on an otherwise blank-backed(?) e104 dygert is pretty nutty. i could almost buy that d380 cobb from you with that money!

[Leon]

The reason some things have gone through the roof is at least partially attributable to the popularity of type collecting and back collecting vs. set collecting. With many of the same fronts on a lot of the caramel and T sets, and the high prices for commons, it's rather easy to see why type collecting and back collecting has taken off the way it has. As far as rarity of T208's, before these 2 new groups showed up, they were some of the more rare ones I had ever seen. We see this happen fairly frequently nowadays. A seemingly super rare card gets sold for a high price...then 20 (or more) pop out of the woods. "Everybodys" and "Holmes to Homes" M101-4/5's come to mind. I am just waiting for the next 30 T231's and Virginia Extra's to come out.....

here's a couple common W573's for perusal....

[phlflyer1]

Originally Posted by rman444

It sounds like there are around 8 of each T208 around? I would guess maybe 12-15 or so of each Williams and another 15-20 of each Rochester?

Richard,

Are the Williams D-359s considered tougher than the Rochester backs?

I had always thought it was the other way around but I wouldn't know for sure as I haven't kept as close tabs on the set once I acquired one of each type of back for my type collection.

Any other D-359 collectors care to share their opinion/experience on the relative scarcity between the Williams and Rochester backs?

[barrysloate]

Hi Scott- Ive had about 10 D359's over the past year and a half, and I think they were all Williams, but I'm doing this by memory.

Correction: I just looked them up and most were Rochester. Just goes to show you- never trust your memory.

[rman444]

Scott - I was just going by graded population counts. I don't know enough about the issue and about hidden collections to be able to add anything more intelligent.

[Leon]

I have probably owned 100 or so D359's over the years and, in my observance, the Rochesters are a little bit tougher. If I had to guess I would say maybe 70/30.....No reason to dispute this unless you have been in my head looking at them. I know there are the conspiracy theory folks that want to dispute everything ever said but no need to on this one. We have all seen what we have seen....I once owned almost 2 full sets and 1 was the #1 on the PSA registry....I admit I bought it that way though....as I am not a registry guy per se'.....I think now is the time to buy the D359's as they have dropped in price more than many sets...especially, scarce ones. regards

[ullmandds]

It seems to me that traditionally...historically...as Leon has stated...the rochester backs have always been considered tougher...although as of lately(last year or so)...the sentiment has been the opposite...that the Williams backs are tougher. So how's that for a conclusion?!?!!

[Jewish-collector]

Now, you all know that REA wants to have the best, rarest, most desirable cards in their Spring 2010 auction. We will see what comes out of the basements.

[Leon]

Rob L sent me a link to one of our old threads that is pertinent to this one, I think....with some discussion of a T208 set...some 7 yrs ago....regards

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=t208

[rman444]

Leon - Did Rob say if that set mentioned in the thread is the set that will be auctioned off in Legendary? or is that another set?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rman444

Leon - Did Rob say if that set mentioned in the thread is the set that will be auctioned off in Legendary? or is that another set?

No, he didn't say one way or the other.

[Wesley]

The original poster talked about a complete set from someone in his early 80s. That thread is eight years old. Does that mean there is yet another complete T208 set out there that is not accounted for in the above estimates?

Here is another old thread about the T208 set:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/15365...Fireside+Cards


On the bottom, Jay Behren confirms the existence of one complete set and rumors of another complete set. Also he talks about two other near sets a few cards away from completion, and estimates 70 cards between four people.

I wonder how many of the ones that Jay talked about are the same ones confirmed by Dan and Leon.