T206 SOVEREIGN REVERSE (distinguishing ink color)

[Craig M]

I am having a difficult time distinguishing the ink colors on SOVEREIGN backs; especially in the 350 series with (forest green) and (apple green). I believe that it is due to not having many SOVEREIGN cards pass through my hands and it will be just a matter of time after seeing them in numbers.

Recently I saw a COBB with a SOVEREIGN 350 and 460 reverse that almost looked identical in ink color except that the number in 460 was very slightly darker. The border and printing of all other areas to my eyes looked the same.

Can somebody please look through their collection and post side by side scans of SOVEREIGN 350 (forest green) and (apple green)?

While looking through your collection can you also pick cards where the (forest green) has faded making it look like an (apple green).

Thanks in advance and I'm looking forward to get this straight in my mind.

Craig

[Abravefan11]

Craig - When in doubt you can always determine the color by which print group a subject is in.

Print Group 1 & Print Group 2 Subjects = Forest Green

Print Group 3 & Print Group 5 Subjects = Apple Green

[Craig M]

Right On Tim! Thank you...Craig

[T205 GB]

Which one is thought to have been printed first? Dark green or apple green?

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Which one is thought to have been printed first? Dark green or apple green?

The forest green Sovereign 350 were first printed with group 1 subjects in early 1910. Several months later group 2 subjects were printed with forest green Sovereign 350. Later in 1910 print groups 3 & 5 were printed with apple green Sovereign 350 backs.

[Craig M]

Tim,

Have you speculated as to (WHY) the two different colors?

Do you believe that the two different ink colors were planned or was it just a case of ALC not documenting the pm color correctly. Possibly different cardboard stock causes ink of the same color to appear lighter or darker.

Craig

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

The forest green Sovereign 350 were first printed with group 1 subjects in early 1910. Several months later group 2 subjects were printed with forest green Sovereign 350. Later in 1910 print groups 3 & 5 were printed with apple green Sovereign 350 backs.

I figured the apple was the later of the two due to the same apple being found on the 205's.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Craig M

Do you believe that the two different ink colors were planned or was it just a case of ALC not documenting the pm color correctly. Possibly different cardboard stock causes ink of the same color to appear lighter or darker.

Craig

Craig M

I completed an ALL-SOVEREIGN set back in 2007....and, here is the bigger picture on the apple green cards in this set that I posted several years ago.

Why American Litho. (ALC) printed a series of 66 cards in their SOVEREIGN issue with this "apple green" ink is somewhat of a mystery. In my opinion, this subtle change
in green color ink reveals to us that ALC selected these 66 subjects from the Major Leaguers in the 350 series to continue printing them with 460 series backs (possibly
due to the popularity of these ballplayers). Apparently ALC changed the shade of their green ink in order that these 66 subjects were identifiable from the "forest green"
subjects with the SOVEREIGN 350 backs (circa Summer 1910).


Some of the HOFer's in this series..................................


..................apple green backs

..................normal green back


......350 Series common............................\/........................................Some more HOFer's in this series........................................\/


FURTHERMORE..........

Three of these cards (Joe Doyle, Simon Nicholls, and Bob Rhoades) were never printed with 460 backs since their Major League careers ended prior to the 460 series
press runs.

The captions of Red Kleinow (NY) and Frank Smith (Chicago) were modified. These exact cards of Kleinow and Smith were printed with a variety of 460 series backs
and their captions reflect their trades to Boston (AL).
Note....that the "Chicago & Boston" versions of Kleinow and Smith were not printed with SOVEREIGN 460 backs.

Supporting evidence regarding the theory of these 5 subjects is that they do not exist with the AB 350 (frame) back. Which of course, if they did, would contradict
this entire premise....since the AB 350 (frame) back is strictly found with 350-only cards.







\/............................ The intended 5 cards for the 350/460 series with apple green backs that were not printed with 460 backs ............................\/





List of apple green backs in the SOVEREIGN set........66 cards

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Joe Doyle (arms over head)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Wash.-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (New York-catching)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)
O'Leary (hands/knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Frank Smith (Chicago-white cap)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)


NOTE..These 66 cards are found ONLY with the apple-green colored backs. They were definitely not printed with both the forest green and apple green backs.


If you have further questions. Feel free to ask them, if I have not clearly explained this phenomena to you. Or, if you want to know more details regarding the
SOVEREIGN cards.


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by Craig M

Tim,

Have you speculated as to (WHY) the two different colors?

Do you believe that the two different ink colors were planned or was it just a case of ALC not documenting the pm color correctly. Possibly different cardboard stock causes ink of the same color to appear lighter or darker.

Craig

Craig - Yes, I believe the two different color inks used for the Sovereign 350's were planned. ALC was a large lithographic firm that showed great consistancy over several years of producing the same back advertisements. Apart from color shade differences of some backs due to wear, light degradation, glue, chemicals, etc., they're extremely consistant in color.