Brandon Steiner hardly slept at all last night

[RichardSimon]

It seems that dreaming up new "created collectibles" kept him up most of the night.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/14/sp...egin.html?_r=0

[Runscott]

'The Derek Jeter Final Journey Collection'

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Runscott

'The Derek Jeter Final Journey Collection'

To me, personally, it would have a negative value. I would probably pay to have it removed.

[RichardSimon]

I am sure Steiner can come up with something for you Leon, they seem to have a knack for coming up with something.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I am sure Steiner can come up with something for you Leon, they seem to have a knack for coming up with something.

They are courting Net54baseball quite hard in helping to promote their items. They have some kind of affiliate program where I/we could get a discount. I still need to make a decision but don't believe it's something I want to do. That being said, if our members (forget about me, I don't count) would like a discount on their items I might be able to swing it. The whole Steiner thing leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth but maybe it shouldn't? I dunno....

[RichardSimon]

"Created collectibles" to me do not fit the Net54 members, for the most part I would think.
Created collectibles with amazingly high prices (are those sustained in the after market?) are not what most of us are looking for.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

"Created collectibles" to me do not fit the Net54 members, for the most part I would think.
Created collectibles with amazingly high prices (are those sustained in the after market?) are not what most of us are looking for.

I know Richard. And that is why I haven't done it. And to clarify, I am not referring to any particular event when I say the "whole Steiner" thing. I am referring to the fact that, because of how much everything in Pro Sports costs, it has gotten away from the average middle class person. I really never got over the MLB strike from 1994 either.

[barrysloate]

Don't do it Leon. As Richard said, it goes against what our community collects.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Leon

They are courting Net54baseball quite hard in helping to promote their items. They have some kind of affiliate program where I/we could get a discount. I still need to make a decision but don't believe it's something I want to do. That being said, if our members (forget about me, I don't count) would like a discount on their items I might be able to swing it. The whole Steiner thing leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth but maybe it shouldn't? I dunno....

I hope you say "No," Leon.

For years I tried to get Steiner Sports (Brandon Steiner) to help fight autograph fraud in the hobby. I must have emailed Steiner Sports over a dozen times about certain issues.

I remember two years ago I emailed Steiner Sports about a website that was selling over 100 Derek Jeter forgeries. The forgeries were the GAI (Steve Sipe) certed forgeries. There I was going out of my way to protect the interests of Steiner Sports and nothing, and now they want to advertise their over-priced items here!!!

I vote "No."

The heck with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[yanks12025]

I vote yes, interested to see what they offer.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I hope you say "No," Leon.

For years I tried to get Steiner Sports (Brandon Steiner) to help fight autograph fraud in the hobby. I must have emailed Steiner Sports over a dozen times about certain issues.

I remember two years ago I emailed Steiner Sports about a website that was selling over 100 Derek Jeter forgeries. The forgeries were the GAI (Steve Sipe) certed forgeries. There I as going out of my way to protect the interests of Steiner Sports and nothing, and now they want to advertise their over-priced items here!!!

I vote "No."

The heck with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Chris
I am going to tell them NO. Is it ok if I cut and paste your message above? If they want to be in the sports memorabilia business they should join the fight with us....

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hey Chris
I am going to tell them NO. Is it ok if I cut and paste your message above? If they want to be in the sports memorabilia business they should join the fight with us....

Please do, Leon.

Thank you.

[Maddog]

Good for you Leon!
Steiner is part of what is wrong with our hobby.
They are pricing the kids out and once we are done collecting where will the hobby be?

$300 for a Jeter or Maddox ball- like they need the extra $$$$

Charlie.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Please do, Leon.

Thank you.

Thanks Chris. Here is the message I just sent them...


"Hi Ann
I run a forum of extremely avid collectors. We look out for the hobby a lot. I personally have helped the Secret Service, FBI, Postal Inspector and Dept. Of Homeland Security, over the last year in rooting out fraud. Unfortunately it seems Steiner is only out for the money. Here is a message you might pass on, if anyone caresﾅI cut and pasted it from my forum, and it is from Christopher Williams, who helps the hobby a ton.

"For years I tried to get Steiner Sports (Brandon Steiner) to help fight autograph fraud in the hobby. I must have emailed Steiner Sports over a dozen times about certain issues.

I remember two years ago I emailed Steiner Sports about a website that was selling over 100 Derek Jeter forgeries. The forgeries were the GAI (Steve Sipe) certed forgeries. There I as going out of my way to protect the interests of Steiner Sports and nothing, and now they want to advertise their over-priced items here!!!

I vote "No."

The heck with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








So with that being said I will respectfully decline working with Steiner until Steiner proves they help more than their pockets.
Thanks
leon"

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thanks Chris. Here is the message I just sent them...


"Hi Ann
I run a forum of extremely avid collectors. We look out for the hobby a lot. I personally have helped the Secret Service, FBI, Postal Inspector and Dept. Of Homeland Security, over the last year in rooting out fraud. Unfortunately it seems Steiner is only out for the money. Here is a message you might pass on, if anyone caresﾅI cut and pasted it from my forum, and it is from Christopher Williams, who helps the hobby a ton.

"For years I tried to get Steiner Sports (Brandon Steiner) to help fight autograph fraud in the hobby. I must have emailed Steiner Sports over a dozen times about certain issues.

I remember two years ago I emailed Steiner Sports about a website that was selling over 100 Derek Jeter forgeries. The forgeries were the GAI (Steve Sipe) certed forgeries. There I as going out of my way to protect the interests of Steiner Sports and nothing, and now they want to advertise their over-priced items here!!!

I vote "No."

The heck with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








So with that being said I will respectfully decline working with Steiner until Steiner proves they help more than their pockets.
Thanks
leon"

Beautiful, Leon.

[Shoeless Moe]

...

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

...

Love it, Paul!!!!

[doug.goodman]

Thank you Leon

[SikSyko]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thanks Chris. Here is the message I just sent them...


"Hi Ann
I run a forum of extremely avid collectors. We look out for the hobby a lot. I personally have helped the Secret Service, FBI, Postal Inspector and Dept. Of Homeland Security, over the last year in rooting out fraud. Unfortunately it seems Steiner is only out for the money. Here is a message you might pass on, if anyone caresﾅI cut and pasted it from my forum, and it is from Christopher Williams, who helps the hobby a ton.

"For years I tried to get Steiner Sports (Brandon Steiner) to help fight autograph fraud in the hobby. I must have emailed Steiner Sports over a dozen times about certain issues.

I remember two years ago I emailed Steiner Sports about a website that was selling over 100 Derek Jeter forgeries. The forgeries were the GAI (Steve Sipe) certed forgeries. There I as going out of my way to protect the interests of Steiner Sports and nothing, and now they want to advertise their over-priced items here!!!

I vote "No."

The heck with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








So with that being said I will respectfully decline working with Steiner until Steiner proves they help more than their pockets.
Thanks
leon"

Great response.

[khkco4bls]

Steiner all about the dollar. Everything overpriced. Greed by the tenth degree.

[Lordstan]

Leon,
I'd love to hear what their response is to your email.
Mark

[ctownboy]

Thank you, Leon, for not dealing with them.

I think that anybody who wants to buy items from Steiner Sports can go to them directly and buy from them. If Steiner can give a discount for an affiliate then an individual can at least ask for a discount if they decide to go to them directly.

Also, I might be wrong but I would think that if you knew what Steiner items looked like, you could go to eBay and get them at cheaper price if you were patient.....

Finally, when I think of "created collectibles" I think of Beanie Babies and Danbury Mint plates. Both of which were hyped when they were made, initally overpriced and that sell for much less (if they sell at all) now.

David

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Leon,
I'd love to hear what their response is to your email.
Mark

It is a polite and professional response.-


Hi Leon,


I can definitely appreciate your interest in and protection of collecting. As one who works in the signed memorabilia world, I have aligned myself with a business that I believe has the highest level of integrity.


I cannot speak to Christopher Williams' experience because I don't have all the facts. The only facts I do have are what I see day to day at Steiner. I see the handling of our athletes, their signing process, and the meticulous treatment of items once signed. I see the double authentication that rigorously goes into place for each piece of game-used memorabilia. And I see a business whose focus is on keeping their offerings fully authenticated, often at greatly inflated expense.


We are a business, that is true, so making money is how we continue on. I hope you'll consider this and decide to join us. But, if not, I do understand that you're in a unique position and coming at this decision from a very passionate place and you have my respect.

Thanks,
Ann




.

[Lordstan]

That is a very professional response. Of course, I know there are many who have had a very different and decidedly not "meticulous" experience sending things into Steiner for private/public signings. I never had an issue, but I know others have.

I see in her quote "And I see a business whose focus is on keeping their offerings fully authenticated, often at greatly inflated expense," she forgot to add "at a greatly inflated price" to the end of the sentence.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

.....
I see in her quote "And I see a business whose focus is on keeping their offerings fully authenticated, often at greatly inflated expense," she forgot to add "at a greatly inflated price" to the end of the sentence.

From everything I have read I immediately thought that too....but she did give a very good answer to a somewhat pointed rejection. I sort of felt bad when I read her response......

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by Leon

From everything I have read I immediately thought that too....but she did give a very good answer to a somewhat pointed rejection. I sort of felt bad when I read her response......

I felt the same way reading it. At the same time what else could she really say? FU? I'm sure she has no idea about the incident Chris is talking about. I wonder if anybody there would remember it. Not because Chris isn't known, but because they are so busy doing all the stuff she listed, who knows if they stop and pay attention to emails like his. She certainly wasn't going to tell the owner of Net54 to take a hike and subsequently piss off the membership, who might be future customers.
I am a capitalist so I don't begrudge making money, but unfortunately it seems as though they take advantage of the common person, who has no idea about the type of stuff they sell. They sell manufactured "collectibles" and get top dollar for them. Good for them. Unfortunately, when the unsuspecting buyer goes to sell it for top dollar, or at a minimum tries to get their money back, because it came from "Steiner," they are in for a rude awakening. I can't tell how many times I have seen Steiner stuff on ebay for less than half of it's original price.

[UnVme7]

If I remember correctly, they had a discount to members on a different forum about 3 yrs ago or so. With the discount, it was still 2-5 times overpriced.

In other words, the discount isn't anything to get excited over.

[HRBAKER]

"The Final Journey Collection?"

Are these urns?

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

"The Final Journey Collection?"

Are these urns?

Nice!
Filled with Yankee stadium dirt from the Shortstop area from his last game

[thetruthisoutthere]

I also want to state that I have also been ignored by Topps, Upper Deck, etc., when I alerted those companies to some serious autograph issues.

They simply do not want to get involved.

Quick story.

Years ago, probably around 2006, I was exposing a few sellers of forgeries on various blogs. The interesting thing about those sellers of forgeries is that when they made purchases, they would buy UDA, Steiner Sports, etc., autograph items. In other words, they were financing their legitimate purchases by selling forgeries.

I would think to myself, if anyone was reading their feedback and had any common sense, they should be questioning that seller. But no one ever did...except me.

[sago]

IMO, Steiner, and by extension, all private/show signings are akin to the new car or new book markets. They lose value as soon as they leave the place of sale.

The resale market for these items is below the paid amount, almost without exception.

However, their demographic seems to be the population that has a large amount of discretionary income. In part, it is also the greedy athletes whose demands drive the prices up for collectors.

D@v1d Dav1s

[thetruthisoutthere]

Below is a thread I wrote just this past December.

An instance where an Ebay seller used a Steiner Sports COA to list and eventually sell their Derek Jeter forgery.

I immediately alerted Steiner Sports to the auction. They never lifted a finger.

http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...eballsfieldofd

The above has occurred more times than I can remember. Steiner Sports has never followed up.

That was, and will be, the last time I will ever contact Steiner Sports about an issue.

[RichardSimon]

Way to go Leon.
You do not need those people.

[callou2131]

Maybe they could have Eli Manning and the Giants authenticate the items.

[bobbyw8469]

I am not happy with the way Steiner is jerking around a fellow collector over a lost/stolen item that was in their care!! If you don't know what I am referring to, go across the street and see how they handled one of our peers.

[parker1b2]

In 2009 my family all chipped in and got me a seat from Yankee Stadium for my birthday. My wife was the point person in dealing with and ordering it from Steiner. Seat was supposed to arrive in June I believe but kept being delayed. My wife communicated with them on several occasions and she said they were rude, sometimes never returned phone calls etc. it was to be a surprise and winded up coming 2 months late. She said it was some of the worst customer service she ever saw, and on top of that they called here from time to time to tell her about other items they have to sell. Finally she told them to stop calling and she would never purchase from them again.

Based on this and there way overpricing I will not deal with them. Besides if there is something you really want you can usually find it on ebay or at an auction for half the price about a year later.

[ooo-ribay]

I'd rather not deal with people who can afford to sell in Skymall Magazine

[Gary Dunaier]

Given what's been posted here, it's interesting to note that there's a sign at the entrance of the Yankees-Steiner Collectibles store in Yankee Stadium telling fans not to take pictures


(Photo taken October 19, 2009. © Gary Dunaier. Link to upload on Flickr.com: here.)

What have they got to hide?

[sbfinley]

I'll preface this by saying I own nothing from Steiner. I have made one purchase from them before - a Christmas gift for a friend 2-3 years back. So...

1. Why are they overpriced? The market dictates price and if there wasn't a market for what they have to offer then they likely would not still be in business nor thriving which it seems they are. $500 for a single signed ball might seem absurd to many people here, but it's all relative. Cardboard pictures of long dead ball players change hands for up to five figures just on this site. There is a vast majority (basically everyone that isn't us) of the world population that would find that absurd. If someone wants it, they will pay for it. They are not the be all - end all. Steiner has had a long relationship with Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter. From what I understand Rivera was a fair chance TTM and a great IP signer. Jeter was usually RTS TTM, but with patience you could get him IP. Just recently someone posted a half dozen Jeter signed RC's in the BST for less than a $100 each. You can get what they offer elsewhere often for cheaper, but people still go to them. More power to them.


2. Why is it their responsibility to police the hobby? If I were to purchase something from Steiner, because of their reputation, I would not have second thoughts about the validity of the product. There was the recent GU flap with Giants gear, but Steiner was operating in good faith with a pro sports franchise. If B&L Auctions dealt in and were offered memorabilia from a pro sports franchise to auction off would I be safe to assume they would be accepted in good faith? I have been a member of this forum for almost seven years and honestly this side of the board can turn into a train wreck. There are a handful of people who want to police and protect the hobby, and I do not doubt for a second their intentions. Yet you call auctions out, you call items out, you call each other out, and you threaten each other with lawsuits. Some of you make fighting a sport. It's tiring. Why would Steiner want to deal with that. If PSA had to personally deal with every cracked slab, fake flip, or fake cert out there your 45 day submissions would take eight months - not four. You want good faith when purchasing a product? Go directly to the source. (That might be grounds for issue 1)

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I'll preface this by saying I own nothing from Steiner. I have made one purchase from them before - a Christmas gift for a friend 2-3 years back. So...

1. Why are they overpriced? The market dictates price and if there wasn't a market for what they have to offer then they likely would not still be in business nor thriving which it seems they are. $500 for a single signed ball might seem absurd to many people here, but it's all relative. Cardboard pictures of long dead ball players change hands for up to five figures just on this site. There is a vast majority (basically everyone that isn't us) of the world population that would find that absurd. If someone wants it, they will pay for it. They are not the be all - end all. Steiner has had a long relationship with Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter. From what I understand Rivera was a fair chance TTM and a great IP signer. Jeter was usually RTS TTM, but with patience you could get him IP. Just recently someone posted a half dozen Jeter signed RC's in the BST for less than a $100 each. You can get what they offer elsewhere often for cheaper, but people still go to them. More power to them.


2. Why is it their responsibility to police the hobby? If I were to purchase something from Steiner, because of their reputation, I would not have second thoughts about the validity of the product. There was the recent GU flap with Giants gear, but Steiner was operating in good faith with a pro sports franchise. If B&L Auctions dealt in and were offered memorabilia from a pro sports franchise to auction off would I be safe to assume they would be accepted in good faith? I have been a member of this forum for almost seven years and honestly this side of the board can turn into a train wreck. There are a handful of people who want to police and protect the hobby, and I do not doubt for a second their intentions. Yet you call auctions out, you call items out, you call each other out, and you threaten each other with lawsuits. Some of you make fighting a sport. It's tiring. Why would Steiner want to deal with that. If PSA had to personally deal with every cracked slab, fake flip, or fake cert out there your 45 day submissions would take eight months - not four. You want good faith when purchasing a product? Go directly to the source. (That might be grounds for issue 1)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Yours is appreciated.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I'll preface this by saying I own nothing from Steiner. I have made one purchase from them before - a Christmas gift for a friend 2-3 years back. So...

1. Why are they overpriced? The market dictates price and if there wasn't a market for what they have to offer then they likely would not still be in business nor thriving which it seems they are. $500 for a single signed ball might seem absurd to many people here, but it's all relative. Cardboard pictures of long dead ball players change hands for up to five figures just on this site. There is a vast majority (basically everyone that isn't us) of the world population that would find that absurd. If someone wants it, they will pay for it. They are not the be all - end all. Steiner has had a long relationship with Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter. From what I understand Rivera was a fair chance TTM and a great IP signer. Jeter was usually RTS TTM, but with patience you could get him IP. Just recently someone posted a half dozen Jeter signed RC's in the BST for less than a $100 each. You can get what they offer elsewhere often for cheaper, but people still go to them. More power to them.


2. Why is it their responsibility to police the hobby? If I were to purchase something from Steiner, because of their reputation, I would not have second thoughts about the validity of the product. There was the recent GU flap with Giants gear, but Steiner was operating in good faith with a pro sports franchise. If B&L Auctions dealt in and were offered memorabilia from a pro sports franchise to auction off would I be safe to assume they would be accepted in good faith? I have been a member of this forum for almost seven years and honestly this side of the board can turn into a train wreck. There are a handful of people who want to police and protect the hobby, and I do not doubt for a second their intentions. Yet you call auctions out, you call items out, you call each other out, and you threaten each other with lawsuits. Some of you make fighting a sport. It's tiring. Why would Steiner want to deal with that. If PSA had to personally deal with every cracked slab, fake flip, or fake cert out there your 45 day submissions would take eight months - not four. You want good faith when purchasing a product? Go directly to the source. (That might be grounds for issue 1)

My answers to Steve's points.
1 - they are dealing with people who are hooked on this stuff and they know that in selling to them they can get away with the prices that they do. Then the real market takes over and look at what happens to the prices then. Do you know any really educated collectors who actually pay them what they are asking?
2 - Maybe it is not a "responsibility" but I would think it would be a very good business practice to try and make some effort to help keep the business that they are in cleaner than it is. That benefits everyone in it, the ones they sell to, the real collectors and all others who enjoy it and make a living from it..

[bender07]

Keating overcharges but I've yet to hear anyone claim he's doing the hobby a disservice (btw, he's not, he charges what he wants to in a free market).

I personally wouldn't buy anything from Steiner but to cast them in a negative light due to their marketing methods and supposed lack of action in cleaning up the hobby seems unfair.

[bobbyw8469]

How about casting them in a negative light due to an internal theft of a fellow collector's very valuable item????

[bender07]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

How about casting them in a negative light due to an internal theft of a fellow collector's very valuable item????

Don't know what you're referencing.

[Cfern023]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

How about casting them in a negative light due to an internal theft of a fellow collector's very valuable item????

I'd like to hear or read more about this.

[bobbyw8469]

Here is the thread. It makes me sick to my stomach.....

http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=908573

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Maddog

Good for you Leon!
Steiner is part of what is wrong with our hobby.
They are pricing the kids out and once we are done collecting where will the hobby be?

$300 for a Jeter or Maddox ball- like they need the extra $$$$

Charlie.

Not to mention they can't seem to purchase ink pens that don't disappear in front of your eyes on single signed 500.00 balls......F them

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Here is the thread. It makes me sick to my stomach.....

http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=908573

YIKES!
That is a cautionary tale.
Hoping for the best outcome.

[Exhibitman]

I consider their kind of created collectible to embody all that is wrong with collecting, specifically how it has gone from an almost scholarly pursuit to a simplistic quest for the bux. Collecting for me has always been as much about the history and context as the item. Manufactured collectibles lack both. I have about as much regard for their items as for the ones I "create" every morning; both are crap.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I consider their kind of created collectible to embody all that is wrong with collecting, specifically how it has gone from an almost scholarly pursuit to a simplistic quest for the bux. Collecting for me has always been as much about the history and context as the item. Manufactured collectibles lack both. I have about as much regard for their items as for the ones I "create" every morning; both are crap.

I'm with you on that.