Collect.Com Auction Catalog on-line

[Bob Lemke]

The Collect.Com Auction catalog is now on-line at

http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.co...omAuction1.pdf

The print version will be mailed with next week's SCD on Tuesday, or can be obtained by registering to bid.

[botn]

There is some great stuff in there Bob. Best of luck.

[Mr. Mitt]

Bob...

I'd like more information about lot #2, the Stall & Dean Cobb advertisement. Specifically, have you had professionals date the paper and printing on the piece? I've come across two of these since the Halper auction and both have been reproductions. As a matter of fact, if you look closely at the one offered in Sotheby's auction and compare it to those since offered, they all contain the same irregularities as if they were copied from their catalog. All irregularities but one, however. The original Halper piece had a crease while those that have followed are mysteriously cut differently (a slightly different shape) so that, alas, the crease vanishes! Here is a brief thread about the repros:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/56713...t+another+fake...

I'm not saying that the item in your auction a reproduction, I just want to state that there are several forgeries out there that look similar to lot #2 and are slightly different than Halper's. Could you please disclose any information of its history and your process of authentication?

Thanks...

Jerry

[wonkaticket]

Jerry,

No doubt in my mind the lot from Collect.com is also one of the fakes. IMO you're correct with your gut feeling on this.

The lot has the same tell tale signs the other fakes have all had. Which you are correct were most likely copied from the Halper sale catalog.







The signs are as such…

A: There is no black border or stroke line around the baseball, also the baseball’s on both the Heritage and Collect.com appear to be hand cut or have a wavy appearance.

B: There is a mark on the pinky finger section of the glove (2) little tears this was on the original from the Halper item, it’s clear on both of the other units.

C: Once again on the Halper unit one can see the tiny pin holes or marks these also carry over to the other 2 units from Heritage and Collect.com

D: The original heavy crease you mentioned from Halper’s example above seem to always be a spot for weak printing or damage on the other 2 units…as the “Church Lady” would say “Isn’t that convenient”

These have always been highly questionable items almost like Fro-Joy’s if you will.

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_ite...3&src=pr#PHOTO


http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.co...omAuction1.pdf

To find any other examples with the same damage and markings in the exact same spot seems highly unlikely and should make any good seller or buyer raise an eyebrow. I’m surprised Heritage and now Collect.com didn’t do their homework or catch these sooner.

Not the lot I would want to highlight in my first auction unless I was 100% certain it was the real deal…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5EZ9...e=channel_page

Not for nothing but this is part of SCD correct? Didn’t SCD take ads from Coaches Corner a known counterfeiter of signs and such?

If the above is true there’s some irony…

Cheers,

John

[Mr. Mitt]

Excellent work John! Top notch... TOP NOTCH ! ! !

That explanation and side-by-side comparison is more than enough for any reputable auction house to pull the lot. Thank you for your efforts!

[Rob D.]

John raises a point that popped into my head about 5 seconds after I read this post that SCD is delving into the auction-house business: This is the same SCD that accepts advertising from Coach's Corrner and has for years.

You reap what you sow, I guess.

[Mr. Mitt]

Bob... the holiday weekend is over and a full business day has passed. Based on the number of views this thread has generated, I'm curious as to if a decision on lot #2 has been made? Will the Stall & Dean Cobb advertisement be pulled or is it business as usual at SCD?

Eagerly awaiting a response...

[Bob Lemke]

This (circa 10:45 a.m. CDT, Wed., 5/27) is the first time I've been on the forum since mid-afternoon Friday, so the authenticity question raised by Jerry is new to me. I've had a chance to read the thread (including its tangents) and take note of John's analysis of the Halper piece versus the two that have since come to auction.

I have conferred with Collect.com's auction director Steve Bloedow and he has agreed that we should pull this item from the auction. We will undetake a more in-depth look at the S&D stand-up and seek outside assistance in determining or disproving its authenticity.

Let me be totally up front in stating that I am the one who passed judgment on the originality of this item. When I heard it had been consigned I was immediately concerned because I was aware that this particular ad piece had been counterfeited in recent years. My cursory poking around on the internet, however, indicated that the fakes seen in quantity on eBay, etc., were of a smaller size. I visited the Heritage auction site and studied the example sold there compared it with the consigned item. It was my considered opinion that the piece sold by Heritage was not the progenitor of the piece consigned to Collect.com; that is, nobody stole the image from Heritage and made a counterfeit from that source. I had never heard any indication that the Heritage piece was questioned.

If you look at the Halper piece as the possible "source" for both the Heritage and Collect.com examples, the concerns expressed here become understandable. As I said, further study will be undertaken and the consigned S&D standup is now off the market.

That being said, I have to concur with those who expressed the idea that I, or Steve, should have been contacted directly on this subject. To this moment, I have not received a single e-mail or PM from anybody referencing this matter. As you can see, I am not an everday visitor to this forum, and Steve is even less so. The professional courtesy of a heads-up from the original questioner or anybody else with a concern would seem to have been the way to go.

I also note the appearance of some new "faces" on this thread, hiding behind anonymity to pursue their tilt at the Coaches Corner windmill. They should properly take up their cause in a new thread that would likely rival the 400+ post-count of the last one and have the same impact on the way business is conducted in this hobby/industry.

We appreciate the vigilence of many of the experts who frequent this forum and you have my thanks for raising this concern; just know that in future any issues would be more timely addressed by a direct contact.

[Rich Klein]

1) Bob and Steve did the right thing to do when they realized what was happenning. I agree with Bob's version of the time line. See pt 2 for what I mean

2) Having worked for a similar type company to F&W; let me assure the posters that there is no way that every department is aware of what is going on in all the other departments. Krause (F&W) is just too large for that to occur.

3) Jeff and Todd; please take your ribbing, serious or not, to emails.

4) Bob; I do disagree with you slightly in that I believe the public comment helped you all do the right thing. Just like when you wrote about the fake grading companies all those years ago. You could have contacted them privately but instead wrote a very nice article about the Fake 1963 Bazookas IIRC.

5) The Coach's Corner issue is a tricky one. Even assuming as I do based on pt #2 that Collect.Com auctions and SCD are two different operations -- unfortunately Collect.Com will be branded by the Coach's Corner relation although it is obvous that Collect.Com auction is going to be properly vetted whenever possible. Now; my buddy T.S. O'Connell wrote a blog recently in which he vented AND with very good reason about some Coach's Corners comments

Those comments appeared in his blog entry about Max Silberman (also a good friend of mine and trading partner since the 1970's) and his battle with his many ailments. That was not an appopriate place for the Coach's Corners comments and ANYONE who posted in that blog piece should be ashamed of themselves.

However; the general issue is acceptable to discuss Coach's Corner and a public airing is fine. Hey; I worked at Beckett when we were all the major pricing game in town and you should have seen some of the lies said on the old Sports Net boards in those days. Give someone an computer and not face to face talk and see what negative things get posted.

6) Good luck to Bob; Steve; etc in your auction. I hope that every lot *except for any I may bid on* reached more than your maximum goal

[Leon]

Thanks for the feedback and follow up. The only thing I will add is that there is absolutely no one on this forum, that is a participant, who is completely anonymous. They can usually remain anonymous in threads but if push comes to shove I do have their contact info, meaning first and last name and a phone number. As a matter of fact I too saw some new faces and double checked to make sure their info is on file...and it is. Good luck in the auction. If you have enough of them there will no doubt be other issues in the future. It's all about how they are handled. I knew this would be handled professionally. regards

[Mr. Mitt]

Thank you, Bob. Pulling it for further evaluation is the prudent thing to do. I applaud the decision. If you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is authentic, utilizing multiple and trusted sources, this thread will be a blessing in disguise for your next auction as the piece will garner more bidders than it would have otherwise gotten given the skepticism. I, for one, however, believe that the authentication results won't be pleasant.

As for contacting you directly, in retrospect, perhaps I should have. I understand your point of view, but hope that you understand mine too. You came on a public forum to advertise your offerings. My intent was to have a potential forgery pulled from the marketplace and not have a buyer endure the cost and hassle of later realizing he was taken. John's visual, side-by-side comparisons were invaluable. This forum is to help educate and advance the hobby. That's what was done and private emails would not have accomplished this.

Lastly, your initial concern about its authenticity given your knowledge of prior reproductions casts a darker shadow. Comparing your example to Heritage's is commendable, though why not delve a bit deeper, especially on a $20k+ lot that is the star of your inaugural auction? If you can reference Sotheby's hammer price, perhaps comparing your piece to theirs would have been appropriate.

This is not a pissing match and I don't want to diverge too far from my initial intent of thanking you for pulling the lot. A mistake was made. I make them, you make them, we all make them. They will continue to be made by all of us to varying degrees. I'm content that the proper action was taken and useful knowledge has been disseminated to the broader hobby.

Jerry

[Aric]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

That being said, I have to concur with those who expressed the idea that I, or Steve, should have been contacted directly on this subject.

Why do you think that? Who would that benefit? You. That would only benefit you. Instead, now we know that your auction house did not do it's homework on its most publicized piece in its first auction. Who's to say you have not done your homework on the remaining items? If this had not been taken public then no one else would have known. Do you expect Wonkaticket to do the research on all of your other items and notify you privately if he finds a problem.

[Jim VB]

Geeesh, Aric. I hope someday if you make a mistake or error in judgement at work, that none of us are looking. If that day ever comes, I'm sure you'd appreciate a private "Pssst..." rather than a public airing out.

I don't know of any individual or any auction house that is flawless. What sets them apart is how often (or how seldom) they have problems, and how they deal with those problems.

Bob has been around this industry a long time. I strongly suspect that he has added more to it than you ever will. (I can only "suspect" because you've made 2 posts on this board... ever. And in the second you go into attack mode on a guy who already has admitted that he may have made a mistake, and is rectifying the problem.)

Glass houses buddy.

[drc]

As Bob noted, no one contacted him and if someone had he would have have known about the issue that much sooner. This is an instance where contacting the auctioneer is the most effective and efficient way to get practical result.

[danc]

First of all, I had to give Leon a blood test in order for the registration.

Second, noted errors made public on Boards are fair game especially if you bring this to our attention for free advertising.

Third, Rich was correct above. Sometimes people get out of line and mask themselves to protect their identity. I read most of the stuff on T.S's blog. Is it fair to him that an outraged public spews hatrid in his direction? Probably not, but is it fair that the "voice of the hobby" misleads people? All SCD does is ignore the general public and all we can do is say "no" and apparently the general public has created what we have now, thirty-five pages and I don't know one single person with a subscription.

Fourth point, your auction would be praised if you did not have an association with the periodical. SCD touts these "authenticators", stuff sells LOW and can we then consign these items to the Sportscollectorsdigest.com auction? Why not! I don't understand?

Fifth point, the famous thread was over 700, not 400.

Lastly, you have to understand, we are all frustrated and nobody gives anyone answers. It's not your fault, nor was it T.S's fault, but we are all tired of being ignored and you guys wear the work clothes of the big cog. Who is the top man in control and makes the decisions? When someone brings up this concern to someone at SCD, they handle it in one of two ways. Ignore the person or get defensive. You wonder why so many people are angry? Check out the blog at www.sports-rings.com. That dude is angry.

In saying the above, I will NEVER, EVER, EVER bid on an SCD auction, no matter how badly I need something, I would rather not fill that hole at any cost then support "that" brand name.

This is my opinion.

DanC

[PhilNap]

The whole SCD/Coach's Corner relationship is a total mess. I would think that by now, with all the abuse it apparently subjects TS to, he would certainly like to distance himself from his controversial advertiser. Unfortunately, higher ups and business survival probably dictate otherwise.

I guess dealing with the abuse is part of the job description for him, Lemke and any other SCD employee who puts himself out there.

It seems to me that this new auction venture is just an attempt to generate some positive cash flow in an effort to stay afloat. As far as supporting the auction goes . . . I have to agree with DanC here.

[Mr. Mitt]

I'm not sure if people are referring to me or not about the anonymity issue. I'd like to chime in, if I may. I've been involved in the baseball memorabilia hobby since the late 1970's but haven't bought or sold a card for over 20 years. Because of this, I really don't have anything of value to add to 99.8% of the threads in this forum. I lurk and absorb as much information as I can because I love baseball, its history and have an interest in the broader hobby's progression. Since about 1989, I've almost strictly collected vintage baseball gloves. It's what I've gravitated towards and enjoy the most. I have a few other select pieces of memorabilia, but my focus has predominantly been on gloves and glove related ephemera. This is why I had knowledge enough to question the S&D Cobb glove advertisement. Until another glove related issue arises, you'll probably not hear from me, though I will be reading frequently.

Like everyone, my full contact information is on file with Leon. I signed my initial post with my first name and my email address is attached to each post I've made. Furthermore, I can be contacted via this forum's private messaging function. If anyone wanted, or still wants, to know my full name or anything else about me, there are outlets to get in touch with me (though it seems no one sends private emails ). Interestingly, only two people have clicked my username and viewed my "about me page" even though there have been over 3,000 views of this thread. It's not mandatory for us to reveal our full names when posting. That was the forum owner's decision, not mine. My decision was to not disclose my last name. I stand by that choice because I simply don't want to intertwine my hobby and my profession when someone searches my name on the web.

Sure, there are abusive, anonymous posters here. They upset me as much as they upset you. Until the rules of the forum change and full name signatures are mandatory, there really isn't much we can do. I simply wanted to provide my point of view as to why I don't want my full name attached to each and every post I write. I'm sure I'm not alone in this line of thinking.

Jerry