Gretzky RC sold for $94,613

[T205]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl-wp3887

The question I got is what is the difference from a PSA 9 and a PSA 10? Besides, the obvious $

[buckydent]

Pretty jagged right edge for a PSA 10, I have a much nicer PSA 9 OPC,
and paid $94,000 less. It's going to be tough to turn that around for a profit because as time goes by more 10's will surface just because of production numbers and unopened /ungraded cards as of now. I would not have bid on that card because of the right edge despite it being a "10". I have also always felt that more kids in Canada collected hockey cards then in america, so you would expect the Topps to be tougher card, but the OPC was notorous for the rough cuts, except for those cut from factory sheets.

[D. Bergin]

I'd be suspicious of an OPC card from this era without a rough cut.

Whether it's a 10 or not..........who the crap knows, it would forever be out of my price range.

If I had a 10 I'd probably sell it and buy 95 9's.

[steve B]

Anyone else think it's trimmed?

It looks a bit short in the holder, plus the views shown on the auction site appear show the rough cut only in the middle of the sides while the corners look smooth.

I'd love to see it up close. Either to see what I think I'm seeing, or to see one really nice Gretzky.

Steve B

[LanceRoten]

Traditional OPC cut. Had a PSA 9 Paul Coffey 81/82 opc rc I sold a few years back, had a cut similar to that. Kinda surprised it got a 10 with that roughness. Wouldn't have been the deal breaker for me though. The price would have taken care of that

[ls7plus]

Not to be overly trite, but a fool and his money are soon parted. There are a heckuva lot better ways to spend that kind of money in sports cards than that! Buy the card, and don't spend $80K plus on the holder (SMR is $5250 for a nine, and $80,000 for a ten--that's a whole lot more bucks to spend for an encapsulated piece of paper with slightly different ink on it)! Has to be an investor--collectors ask themselves what they're ACTUALLY GETTING for the increased cost!

Best regards,

Larry

[GasHouseGang]

Shoot, how many raw cards could you buy and submit for that price, hoping one would come back a 10?

[almostdone]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Shoot, how many raw cards could you buy and submit for that price, hoping one would come back a 10?

Excellent point!

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by steve B

Anyone else think it's trimmed?

It looks a bit short in the holder, plus the views shown on the auction site appear show the rough cut only in the middle of the sides while the corners look smooth.

I'd love to see it up close. Either to see what I think I'm seeing, or to see one really nice Gretzky.

Steve B

I didn't see this thread until just now, but I started a similar thread in the Hockey/Basketball forum yesterday as well. Yes, I have "concerns" regarding the grade as well. 1979 O-Pee-Chee hockey cards typically have rough edges on all 4 sides and this example does appear to be noticeably undersized top-to-bottom.

I also don't get excited anymore about cards graded PSA 10. The difference between a 9 and 10 can be as much as an emotional judgment call rather than a purely objective distinction. I've challenged many vintage Gem Mint 10 collectors over the years to crack out some of their 10s to see if they regrade 10 and no one has ever taken me up on it - even with me offering to pay the grading fees. I also have a problem with the definition of a PSA 10. It should be unimprovable in every aspect. A card with 60/40 centering with a slight printing imperfection can still grade a 10.

[buckydent]

Depends whether you are buying for investing or collecting. Some people are in it for the investment and they buy the holder and not the card.
It will be really tough selling that 90k Gretzky and making a good profit considering consignment fees, ebay fees, paypal fees etc and the fact you have to declare and pay taxes on it as well. I think a portfolio of PSA 9 vintage hockey cards like the Howe, Orr, LaFleur, Dryden, Richard, Hull etc would be better investment, and you can get all of those and a PSA 9 Gretzky, Lemieux and Messier for less than half of what that person paid for the PSA 10 Gretzky. Come on, that's simply crazy for one card.

I am perfectly happy with 6s, 7s or 8s if they look really nice. I have seen 8's that look better than 9s from an eye appeal standpoint, and 9s that look better than 10s. The rationale for paying $90,000 for any post war card is irrational, unless it's a 1952 mantle in 9 or 10. I remember seeing a gorgeous Mantle on ebay in SGC 84 for like 9 months , I think sold by bmw sports card, for around $50,000 ( it was listed at 75k ). Who would buy the 90k Gretzky over a 50k 1952 Mantle if they are doing so for investment purposes? The Mantle was spectacular. One of the best 7s you would ever see.

As for the Gretzky, I am perfectly happy with the 9, I got many years ago for under 1k, but I'm not going to pay 90 to 150 times the price of a 9 for a 10 knowing that 10 years from now - there will be many more Gretzky 10s and some may be nicer to a potential buyer than your "rough cut".

I have a Messier rookie from the year after that with the typical rough cut,
in fact, you could not find a smooth Messier or Gretzky until around 2001, then all of a sudden a bunch appeared because people were cutting them from sheets. Ticked everyone off. Me included. Theirs looked better than mine.


I watched the Jordan and Montana BGS 9.5 rookies go from being $100,000 cards to 5k cards, once the supply increased well beyond 1. Because now there are many 9.5s and even upwards of 5 to 10 pristines. Go figure. Too much supply. Take the other 90k and buy all the other cards you collect or some truly rare vintage stuff. Then on ebay 2 months ago I see the true holy grail of all Hoops cards: the 1969 Topps Lew Alcindor appear, not in 9 or 9.5, but in BGS 10 pristine. I had never ever seen a 9 before. Now a 10? It only sold auction style for about $12,000. Much rarer than the Gretzky 10 and with similar importance to collectors.

I remember when the grading phenom just started in 1990-91 and hearing people think a buyer was crazy for paying $300 for a PSA 10 Nolan Ryan rookie at the East Coast national, which is now a $35,000 card. Back then you could also get PSA 10 Mantles from the 60s for under $500. You can't find 10s now and 9s go for way more than that. Prices for 10s of vintage stuff grew exponentially, whereas everything issued after 1975 dropped into freefall for 9s and 10s. The Gretzky 10 in the long run is a bad investment, if you want the card, a 9 will suffice and always hold most of it's value, even appreciate.

I saw this happen with the Jordan's. Do you want to be the guy that got in first at over 100k, only to see 5 more surface? It lost 66% of it's value

I think building sets is the most fun, and I would never pay more than 10k for any card on earth, too many other good things to spend the extra dough on -like a house, a boat, family vacation, car, tuition for kids etc. I feel really bad for the guy that paid 16k for a McGwire Tiffany rookie that's now worth $200 if even that. It's a crazy hobby. Buy what you love and want to keep ! Nothing wrong with upgrading from time to time, but 90k is extreme.

A better investment of the 90k would have been ( if I had money to burn ):
1) 1952 SGC 84 Mantle Topps rookie for 50k
2) the Kareem/Alcindor rookie in BGS 10 for 10k
3) A Messier rookie in BGS 10 for 5k
4) The Bradhaw rookie on ebay in PSA 10 for $25,000 ( or go for a Bradshaw 9 for 4k and pick up a nice PSA 7 or 7.5 graded rookies of Aaron, Banks and Mays )
5) A Montana PSA 10 or BGS 9.5 for 2 to 3k
and a Gretzky PSA 9 for 2.5 to 5k, just to make sure we get the Gretzky we wanted so dearly.

I rather own the porfolio than the single Gretzky 10

[buckydent]

Adding a few photos of some of the classics I was referring to:

The Mantle 7.5 went for 50k best offer on 75k list price on ebay
The Mantle 7.0 SGC 84 went for 35k , was listed at 50k
The Alcindor aka Kareem rookie went for 12k and change ( bargain )
The Orr test 9 went for 75k ( books for well over 100k )

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by buckydent

Depends whether you are buying for investing or collecting. Some people are in it for the investment and they buy the holder and not the card.
It will be really tough selling that 90k Gretzky and making a good profit considering consignment fees, ebay fees, paypal fees etc and the fact you have to declare and pay taxes on it as well. I think a portfolio of PSA 9 vintage hockey cards like the Howe, Orr, LaFleur, Dryden, Richard, Hull etc would be better investment, and you can get all of those and a PSA 9 Gretzky, Lemieux and Messier for less than half of what that person paid for the PSA 10 Gretzky. Come on, that's simply crazy for one card.

I am perfectly happy with 6s, 7s or 8s if they look really nice. I have seen 8's that look better than 9s from an eye appeal standpoint, and 9s that look better than 10s. The rationale for paying $90,000 for any post war card is irrational, unless it's a 1952 mantle in 9 or 10. I remember seeing a gorgeous Mantle on ebay in SGC 84 for like 9 months , I think sold by bmw sports card, for around $50,000 ( it was listed at 75k ). Who would buy the 90k Gretzky over a 50k 1952 Mantle if they are doing so for investment purposes? The Mantle was spectacular. One of the best 7s you would ever see.

As for the Gretzky, I am perfectly happy with the 9, I got many years ago for under 1k, but I'm not going to pay 90 to 150 times the price of a 9 for a 10 knowing that 10 years from now - there will be many more Gretzky 10s and some may be nicer to a potential buyer than your "rough cut".

I have a Messier rookie from the year after that with the typical rough cut,
in fact, you could not find a smooth Messier or Gretzky until around 2001, then all of a sudden a bunch appeared because people were cutting them from sheets. Ticked everyone off. Me included. Theirs looked better than mine.


I watched the Jordan and Montana BGS 9.5 rookies go from being $100,000 cards to 5k cards, once the supply increased well beyond 1. Because now there are many 9.5s and even upwards of 5 to 10 pristines. Go figure. Too much supply. Take the other 90k and buy all the other cards you collect or some truly rare vintage stuff. Then on ebay 2 months ago I see the true holy grail of all Hoops cards: the 1969 Topps Lew Alcindor appear, not in 9 or 9.5, but in BGS 10 pristine. I had never ever seen a 9 before. Now a 10? It only sold auction style for about $12,000. Much rarer than the Gretzky 10 and with similar importance to collectors.

I remember when the grading phenom just started in 1990-91 and hearing people think a buyer was crazy for paying $300 for a PSA 10 Nolan Ryan rookie at the East Coast national, which is now a $35,000 card. Back then you could also get PSA 10 Mantles from the 60s for under $500. You can't find 10s now and 9s go for way more than that. Prices for 10s of vintage stuff grew exponentially, whereas everything issued after 1975 dropped into freefall for 9s and 10s. The Gretzky 10 in the long run is a bad investment, if you want the card, a 9 will suffice and always hold most of it's value, even appreciate.

I saw this happen with the Jordan's. Do you want to be the guy that got in first at over 100k, only to see 5 more surface? It lost 66% of it's value

I think building sets is the most fun, and I would never pay more than 10k for any card on earth, too many other good things to spend the extra dough on -like a house, a boat, family vacation, car, tuition for kids etc. I feel really bad for the guy that paid 16k for a McGwire Tiffany rookie that's now worth $200 if even that. It's a crazy hobby. Buy what you love and want to keep ! Nothing wrong with upgrading from time to time, but 90k is extreme.

A better investment of the 90k would have been ( if I had money to burn ):
1) 1952 SGC 84 Mantle Topps rookie for 50k
2) the Kareem/Alcindor rookie in BGS 10 for 10k
3) A Messier rookie in BGS 10 for 5k
4) The Bradhaw rookie on ebay in PSA 10 for $25,000 ( or go for a Bradshaw 9 for 4k and pick up a nice PSA 7 or 7.5 graded rookies of Aaron, Banks and Mays )
5) A Montana PSA 10 or BGS 9.5 for 2 to 3k
and a Gretzky PSA 9 for 2.5 to 5k, just to make sure we get the Gretzky we wanted so dearly.

I rather own the porfolio than the single Gretzky 10

Excellent post! Yes, I especially agree that I am happy with 7s and 8's as well and those Mantle rookies you posted are gorgeous.

If I were investing in cards right now, I'd go for the pre-1980 uncut sheets. My reasons are: 1. They aren't that easy to come by, 2. They display well when framed. 3. All the problems of trimming don't seem to be an issue.

[buckydent]

The Topps proof uncut 1977 sheet would be something to get a hold of, it has Reggie in an Oriole Uniform. Have not seen any, heard about one.