E121 Cobb and Ruth - Authentic?

[BosseFieldBoy]

An ungraded E121 Cobb and an ungraded E121 Ruth are on auction on ebay from a decent seller. Does anyone have any opinions about authenticity based on the scans below? Any signs of alteration? I'm beyond a novice when it comes to this stuff. Bidding suggests they are authentic but I thought I would see what the group thinks.

Thanks,
Mike

[Rookiemonster]

My first instinct is no. Theses cards were printed on a very thin almost photo like
Stock. The corners look like regular stock. They should also have a very visible dot matrix.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

My first instinct is no. Theses cards were printed on a very thin almost photo like
Stock. The corners look like regular stock. They should also have a very visible dot matrix.

What is your definition of very think almost photo like stock? The cards are at least authentic and the Ruth back looks decent, don't know about the Cobby back. It would be pretty rare that Rick sells an outright fake card but no doubt with the gazillions they list, it happens. I am surprised they aren't graded, which is always a concern on an expensive card, especially as it's being sold by an experienced seller.
edited to add, not to mention he gives a 30 day return policy. And since it was already posted here are links.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-E121-A...oAAOSwk3Fa16~c
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-E121-A...QAAOSwlzVa17AW
.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Leon

What is your definition of very think almost photo like stock? The cards are at least authentic and the Ruth back looks decent, don't know about the Cobby back. It would be pretty rare that Rick sells an outright fake card but no doubt with the gazillions they list, it happens. I am surprised they aren't graded, which is always a concern on an expensive card, especially as it's being sold by an experienced seller.
edited to add, not to mention he gives a 30 day return policy. And since it was already posted here are links.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-E121-A...oAAOSwk3Fa16~c
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-E121-A...QAAOSwlzVa17AW
.

Idk they are smooth and got some glossy feel to it ,Like a old photo. ( film like)
I didn’t look on eBay just the photos posted here in the thread. Idk anything about the seller not that it really matters. But I don’t see the dots all over ( could be the photos) and the papery look to the wear on the corners throws me off. Like I said not a expert but I have own a couple of these and they didn’t look quite like this. Maybe mine were fake lol. I don’t think they were cause I sold them to a older dealer who was very interested in them and felt they were real.

[BosseFieldBoy]

Thanks for the thoughts. Others, please chime in!!!

[ullmandds]

i dont like the ruth...the image isn't as clear as others i compared to... and I don't like the stock look. The cob looks better. What do I know!

[petecld]

I would stay away from both of these cards.

[Bliggity]

Originally Posted by petecld

I would stay away from both of these cards.

I agree. I have been watching these since they went up, and had concerns as soon as I saw them. The picture quality on the Ruth does look off, and having handled many e121s, I have never seen the type of wear these are showing, especially the corners on the Cobb. E121 cardstock is thin enough that any wear to the corners is almost always going to result in a rounding of the corners, rather than what is seen on the Cobb, which looks like paper pulling with sharp corners still intact. This suggests to me that the Probstein Cobb has a thicker cardstock than it should. They may well be okay, but there are enough red flags to keep me from bidding. Not sure why Rick would not have sent those in.

ETA: I took another quick glance at some other examples, and the picture quality on both of those seems bad compared to real E121s, especially the Ruth. I don't like them at all.

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by Bliggity

Not sure why Rick would not have sent those in.
.

fwiw-
He is selling "unopened" 86 fleer bkb packs that end soon also. 4 for over 1.5k total price right now, ends in 6 hours.

[Leon]

After further review I think I am with you guys. I believe I see a bright spot of white under some wear on the Cobb. They sent a scan of the back of the Ruth earlier but it looked ok.
If fake, I wonder why they would sell raw cards that aren't good and give a 30 day return? It doesn't really make much sense except to think someone spending that kind of money won't get them authenticated in under 30 days?

[BosseFieldBoy]

Thanks everyone, I shared your concerns but Rick has always such a reliable seller (at least to me). I emailed him about the authenticity of the cards and he has not responded. That’s been a problem lately.

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Idk they are smooth and got some glossy feel to it ,Like a old photo. ( film like)

If you're saying your E121's were smooth and glossy (like a photo) then chances are what you had were indeed fakes. There's nothing smooth, glossy, or photo-like about E121's

[gregr2]

After reading this thread I'd like to own a cheap raw authentic E121 of a lower level player so I can understand the look and feel in person. If you have one your looking to sell, PM me with the details. Thanks

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

If you're saying your E121's were smooth and glossy (like a photo) then chances are what you had were indeed fakes. There's nothing smooth, glossy, or photo-like about E121's

Really the ones I had ( some were no names) were very smooth like not glossy but the feel was like that. They were thin and photo like in the sense that they felt like something you would get from a photo booth. Thin ,very fragile . I had to cut the small of a ridged plastic to get them into it. But like I said I sold them and seen the buyer a number of time since.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Bliggity

I agree. I have been watching these since they went up, and had concerns as soon as I saw them. The picture quality on the Ruth does look off, and having handled many e121s, I have never seen the type of wear these are showing, especially the corners on the Cobb. E121 cardstock is thin enough that any wear to the corners is almost always going to result in a rounding of the corners, rather than what is seen on the Cobb, which looks like paper pulling with sharp corners still intact. This suggests to me that the Probstein Cobb has a thicker cardstock than it should. They may well be okay, but there are enough red flags to keep me from bidding. Not sure why Rick would not have sent those in.

ETA: I took another quick glance at some other examples, and the picture quality on both of those seems bad compared to real E121s, especially the Ruth. I don't like them at all.

Having a bunch of e121's in hand right now I have to agree the Ruth photo looks very wonky and the Cobb corners look weird for the reasons mentioned above, but what struck me about them is that when my e121 weak corners don't have the discoloration that the Cobb shows. The wear is basically the same color as the unworn portions of the card.

[Rhotchkiss]

I don’t know why anyone would buy ungraded cards of this caliber, online. Why even take the risk? I understand the caliber of seller and the 30-day return policy mitigates some risk, but still, I would not touch an ungraded Ruth or Cobb Online.

[BosseFieldBoy]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I don’t know why anyone would buy ungraded cards of this caliber, online. Why even take the risk? I understand the caliber of seller and the 30-day return policy mitigates some risk, but still, I would not touch an ungraded Ruth or Cobb Online.

I agree, that’s why I went to the message board. I love the Ruth montage card so I thought I would ask.

Again, I really appreciate the help. I’ve been collecting for a while but I still feel really uncomfortable with ungraded high end cards.

[ullmandds]

you buy ungraded cards of this caliber if you know the difference between real and fake...because occasionally you get a nice card at an ungraded price!

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Really the ones I had ( some were no names) were very smooth like not glossy but the feel was like that. They were thin and photo like in the sense that they felt like something you would get from a photo booth. Thin ,very fragile . I had to cut the small of a ridged plastic to get them into it. But like I said I sold them and seen the buyer a number of time since.

I would not describe E121's as thin or "photo like". I'd say the card stock is quite average actually

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I disagree, it is definitely thinner than a T206 though thicker than E126

[glchen]

To me, the Ruth card looked good, but trimmed on the top border. Since probstein only guaranteed authenticity, and not a number grade, I doubt you'd be able to return the card if it came back trimmed, but authentic. (I did not win the card, but I put in a snipe.)

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I don’t know why anyone would buy ungraded cards of this caliber, online. Why even take the risk? I understand the caliber of seller and the 30-day return policy mitigates some risk, but still, I would not touch an ungraded Ruth or Cobb Online.

Completely agree with the quoted post. I know everyone's financial circumstances are different, but I am always amazed when people on here talk about gambling on $1,000+ raw cards on eBay. The Ruth card sold for a little over $1,200; more than I would be willing to gamble on.

While not true 100 percent of the time, $1,000+ cards being sold raw are usually raw for a reason.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Completely agree with the quoted post. I know everyone's financial circumstances are different, but I am always amazed when people on here talk about gambling on $1,000+ raw cards on eBay. The Ruth card sold for a little over $1,200; more than I would be willing to gamble on.

While not true 100 percent of the time, $1,000+ cards being sold raw are usually raw for a reason.

I bought this card on ebay raw from a European seller for well over $1000. I would say that there are at least five times a year where some gem appears on ebay raw (e.g., see Ty Cobb / Broadleaf back)

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by glchen

I bought this card on ebay raw from a European seller for well over $1000. I would say that there are at least five times a year where some gem appears on ebay raw (e.g., see Ty Cobb / Broadleaf back)

Yup!

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I would not describe E121's as thin or "photo like". I'd say the card stock is quite average actually

The series of 80 cards are as you describe. The Series of 120 cards (which these would be if they are authentic) should be on thinner card stock. If you hold one of each in each hand and feel the paper thickness it is obvious.

[pencil1974]

I got my Big Head Ruth raw on eBay as well. I’ve picked up quite a few high dollar raw cards in the last few years on eBay. I’m all for anyone that doesn’t like to bid on raw cards as it’s less competition. Now what you do have to be is educated and know what to look for. Sites like this are great for that.