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#1
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Bruce Dorskind
One of the recurring themes on this (and other) chat boards is the fraud, misrepresentation, |
#2
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: JimCrandell
Good stuff Bruce--I have surfaced ideas like this in the past and some mock them as self serving--suspect it will be the same this time but what you call for is long overdue. |
#3
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: CN
Bruce I agree with you about having some kind of regualatory board within our hobby. The hobby has grown too much and it would be a shame to see it crumble. Regarding Rudy, you can probably see him Sunday night since you both are probably going to see the Yanks. CN |
#4
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: barrysloate
Bruce- those are good ideas but I don't know if you should nominate five people who may not have the time or interest to do this (and it's "Olbermann" for the record). |
#5
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Rick McQuillan
Bruce, this is an excellent idea. I would also suggest getting the major grading companies involved. $100 for an annual fee would be worthwhile if we could get some of the fake stuff out of the market. We might also want to get our state and local legislatures involved to come up with stronger laws and penalties for selling questionable items. |
#6
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Bruce Dorskind
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#7
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
In the country it is a fox guarding the hen house... but almost the same thing. |
#8
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Bruce's plan would obviously only be positive for our hobby but it can only work if auction houses agree to open their books (and bidders in auctions agree to have their identities and bidding habits reviewed). This will never happen because then the fraud will be uncovered and that is not in the interest of shill bidders. And auction houses would also complain about all that extra paper they would be required not to shred. I just don't see it happening unless bidders got together and demanded it -- with the refusal to participate in auctions the Sword of Damocles over the auction houses' heads. |
#9
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: barrysloate
Bidders are always free to boycott an auction. The problem, as we've previously discussed, is that cards trump everything. |
#10
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Brian Martin
I don't think we really need any politicians involved. Rudy Giuliani, like nearly all politicians is a disingenious individual. It's difficult to place trust in anyone these days except the closest of friends and immediate family members. |
#11
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: LetsGoBucs
Bidders are always free to boycott an auction. The problem, as we've previously discussed, is that cards trump everything. |
#12
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: JimB
I like the idea in general. Some degree of oversight would be good, but would be very difficult to get given privacy issues for individuals. Perhaps a little investigative reporting like Dennis Purdy did in the early issues of VCBC. He brought down a couple of the hobby's "bad guys". |
#13
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: JimCrandell
Barry--thats just not right--there are certain auction houses I will not buy from regardless. |
#14
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: barrysloate
Jim- I appreciate that you bid selectively, but I know many collectors who will bid in any auction that has something they need, even if they feel they had in the past been shilled. |
#15
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Barry, don't blame the victim. |
#16
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
I agree with Jeff's statement that nothing will ever be accomplished with Bruce's idea unless and until any such regulatory committee has the authority to make unannounced intrusive inspections of an auction house's books and bidding records. I'm not persuaded, though, that this cannot happen. Over the past several years I know of instances where a number of auction houses have expressed concerns about the legitimacy of some of the claimed prices realized of their competitors. It seems, then, that there is a desire within at least a portion of the auction house ranks to clean up the fraud in the auction business. |
#17
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: barrysloate
That's a good idea Corey, but I suspect not too many dealers will agree to it, even the ones who have nothing to hide. |
#18
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: T206Collector
...and I'll say it here again. The concerns expressed in this post are the reasons why third party grading become such an important part of our hobby. |
#19
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: JimB
Corey, |
#20
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: leon
As soon as we become a "major" auction house maybe this will continue to be the trend? From our home page: (note tooting of own horn) |
#21
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: jay wolt
Short of an act from Congress |
#22
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Jay, as for companies you can trust, how do you know that your friends at some auction houses are not committing fraud? They can come on this board, tell you what great guys they are, swear they are not committing fraud, have great customer service, great cards -- and rip you off blindly behind closed doors. |
#23
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: jay wolt
Jeff - Understood! |
#24
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Bruce Dorskind
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#25
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: John J. Grillo
I believe no oversight is necessary and education is the key. Taking the time to learn before a high value purchase would eliminate this sort of action. |
#26
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Jim Dale
More government...no thanks! |
#27
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: leon
"I mean seriously look what "government" has done for the mortgage industry as of late...no thanks. Official or private - I don't need no stinking regulations." |
#28
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Tony F
He was here in SURREY BC CANADA helping one of our local polititions with their election campaign |
#29
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: DD
This board focuses on pre-war baseball cards. I would say that population of collectors is less than 1% of all collectors that would be affected, if auction houses and grading companies are to be involved, or monitored. |
#30
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Bruce Dorskind
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#31
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: davidcycleback
In the area of fine art prints, there are two reputable dealers associations. Qualifying members are recognized as knowledgeable and experienced in their specialities and have to abide by strict rules-- providing lifetime guarantee of authenticity and paper description of the purchased artwork is required. For beginners, it's safe authenticity-wise to purchase from one of these member dealers or to purchase art that comes with LOA/Provenance of one of these dealers. |
#32
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: samuel
I'm interested to know how regulation is the cause of the mortgage crisis... |
#33
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Steve
Clean Sweep Auction keeps (and has almost always) kept bidding records and has no problem with any type of reasonable, non-destructive to our business, audit. |
#34
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: davidcycleback
I agree that the best thing you can do is to provide a list of good dealers who agree to abide to the reasonable ethical rules. |
#35
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: DD
Edited to say, I'm sorry I let myself get sucked in when I said I wouldn't anymore. |
#36
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Rob D.
As polarizing a figure as Bruce is on this board, one who seems to thrive off of presenting himself foremost as some kind of elitist, I doubt he could get 50 people to pay a nickel each to watch an ant eat a bale of hay. |
#37
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: JimB
"More government...no thanks! |
#38
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
What Jim B. said. |
#39
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Bruce Dorskind
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#40
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: leon
Since you are advocating a buyers "constitution" is there a sellers one? |
#41
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Bruce, two things: first, more grand jury investigations; and second, all auction houses agree to let their bidding records be examined by an independent third party. |
#42
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: JimCrandell
Bruce, |
#43
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: paulstratton
So would having a lawyer do the actual bidding/consigning on your behalf protect your personal information in any way? |
#44
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Jim Dale
Personally I don't much agree with the comparisons offered about highways \ highway patrol and I'm sorry that I was the one who tossed out the "mortgage" industry as its comparisons don't really apply either. |
#45
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Where is Rudy Giuliani When We Need Him?
Posted By: Rich Klein
Bruce has an excellent idea in what he'd like to do. Frankly, any professional group of card people is long overdue that compared to some other hobbies such as coins and stamps we are still in our infancy. |
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