PSA and off center cards

[Manny Trillo]

I consistently see off-center cars with the same grading number sell for about a third of a card that is centered well. Why doesn't PSA just take into account that off center knocks the grade down rather than putting a grade reflective of the condition except the centering, and then putting an OC. For example PSA 8 OC should get rid of the OSI designation and just knock it down to a 6 or 7 because of the off centering.

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[sickmantz]

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

I consistently see off-center cars with the same grading number sell for about a third of a card that is centered well. Why doesn't PSA just take into account that off center knocks the grade down rather than putting a grade reflective of the condition except the centering, and then putting an OC. For example PSA 8 OC should get rid of the OSI designation and just knock it down to a 6 or 7 because of the off centering.

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1. Eye appeal is subjective.
2. Their standards exist for a reason and they can't change them (to suit people's tastes).
3. It's also not accurate to grade a card a 5 just because the centering is bad when the physical card itself is pristine. That would just create a new market inefficiency where people start paying premiums for sharp cards with less than perfect centering because they've been undergraded by the "professionals."

[BobbyBhockey]

Interesting how you can ask for no qualifiers and then question the grade with PSA, I guess at least you know what your getting when you have the o/c designation. Although, I agree, it is one of the main parts of grading but every company does something a little different.

[Manny Trillo]

I see your point, but the reality is people pay foar less for a card when it's off center they grading should reflect that market reality.

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[irv]

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

I see your point, but the reality is people pay far less for a card when it's off center the grading should reflect that market reality.

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What people decide to pay is reflected in the card and it's condition, including centering.

If a OC 7 wasn't OC, it would be graded an 8 or higher so what you are asking for is already in place.

[Manny Trillo]

Originally Posted by irv

What people decide to pay is reflected in the card and it's condition, including centering.

If a OC 7 wasn't OC, it would be graded an 8 or higher so what you are asking for is already in place.

Oh, ok. I didnt know that.

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[tjenkins]

I personally prefer a PSA 8 OC or MC over a PSA 6 or 7 (centered), especially if the color and focus is rich and clear. I collect off center cards and I am usually pretty excited when I can pick a PSA 8 or 9 OC/MC for much less. I simply look at it as the technology of the time and that miscut cards are just the way they came out sometimes, often times. It is more important to me that I see the player clearly then see him centered. So I don't mind PSA's current system.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by tjenkins

I personally prefer a PSA 8 OC or MC over a PSA 6 or 7 (centered), especially if the color and focus is rich and clear. I collect off center cards and I am usually pretty excited when I can pick a PSA 8 or 9 OC/MC for much less. I simply look at it as the technology of the time and that miscut cards are just the way they came out sometimes, often times. It is more important to me that I see the player clearly them see him centered. So I don't mind PSA's current system.

..amazing co-incidence that this thread appeared while I was trying to cut through the damned tape on the box from PSA which just came today...
..I'd bought the BVG 4 '58 White Letter Clemente because I knew that it was certainly not a "4" , except to Beckett Vintage Grading ; but the Beckett grader's hands were tied ; they could not give a final grade above a "4" despite how effing gorgeous the card is because the lowest sub-grade was a "2"---the other subs were all "8" with an amazing "8.5" for surface ; this is literally a pack-fresh card from 1958..

..It's now graded as what it actually is : NM-MT with a MC qualifier...about once a year I find a situation like this but rarely a Minty White Letter '58 Clemente...

..

[Touch'EmAll]

Speaking of centering, how are (oc) and (mc) different? Is the (mc) simply worse than (oc) ? Or can (mc) also include flaws that are not (oc) ?

[Batpig]

Originally Posted by irv

What people decide to pay is reflected in the card and it's condition, including centering.

If a OC 7 wasn't OC, it would be graded an 8 or higher so what you are asking for is already in place.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, that's not correct. If an OC 7 wasn't OC, it would be a 7. It only gets OC if it doesn't fit within the centering allowance for a 7.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Batpig

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, that's not correct. If an OC 7 wasn't OC, it would be a 7. It only gets OC if it doesn't fit within the centering allowance for a 7.

With PSA's grading, there are boundaries with how much a card can be off centered. Even their "10's" have limitations, they don't have to be perfect but with centering outside of their guidelines, I can't help but think the card would fall to a 9 if it didn't meet their criteria?
http://www.psacard.com/resources/gra...ndards/#detail

Also, if you were to submit a card that you requested there be no qualifiers on, your card, if it was really an 8 OC, would come back as a 7 or less, would it not?

Not saying you're wrong, Batpig, and that I'm right, that's just the way I understand it.

[Vintagevault13]

Originally Posted by irv

Also, if you were to submit a card that you requested there be no qualifiers on, your card, if it was really an 8 OC, would come back as a 7, would it not?



Not saying you're wrong, Batpig, and that I'm right, that's just the way I understand it.

In this scenario you described, the card would most likely be a 6 at the most.



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[Manny Trillo]

Considering few people will buy OC cards, 4 is probly more accurate. OC cards on ebay go for a small fraction of well centered cards.

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[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

Considering few people will buy OC cards, 4 is probly more accurate. OC cards on ebay go for a small fraction of well centered cards.

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You're wrong. A PSA 8OC will sell for less than a straight 8. It will sell for less than a 7. Occasionally it might even sell for less than a 6 - sometimes. But an 8OC will sell for more than a PSA 4 every. single. time. There's no room for opinions here, that's a stone cold fact.

You are correct that cards with centering issues sell for less than more centered copies. Conversely, there is a premium attached to more centered copies and a dead nuts centered PSA 7 will often outsell a moderately centered PSA 8. But the market reality is that the impact is less than a 4 grade swing. FACT.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

You're wrong. A PSA 8OC will sell for less than a straight 8. It will sell for less than a 7. Occasionally it might even sell for less than a 6 - sometimes. But an 8OC will sell for more than a PSA 4 every. single. time. There's no room for opinions here, that's a stone cold fact.

You are correct that cards with centering issues sell for less than more centered copies. Conversely, there is a premium attached to more centered copies and a dead nuts centered PSA 7 will often outsell a moderately centered PSA 8. But the market reality is that the impact is less than a 4 grade swing. FACT.

But this card is miscut, not off centered. I don't think you can just say 2 grades for a qualifier. To me miscut is going to sell for a lot less than off centered. Also consider a card with ink. A small mark on the back will sell for a lot more than large mark on the front.

[jchcollins]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I find the topic fascinating and think this recent pickup of mine might merit discussion along the same lines...



To start - I guess I’m not quite sure why it got an MC instead of an OC - the part where the OC is the worst is at the top, and though close - you can still see a sliver of white border. The back is centered L-R better than the front, but even on the top - does not show a portion of another card. Whatever, I have dealt w/ PSA long enough to know that they are inconsistent with this type of qualifier at best - and in either case, the centering of this card and it’s effect on the eye appeal does not bother me in the least.

If you look at this long enough, you can tell that from a technical point of view the centering is pretty lousy - but something about the borders and the portrait art together with this just works to make it not that much of an eye sore. The portrait at an arm’s length to me looks centered well enough with the bottom, placard area of the black border where Warren’s name is to still make this a very attractive card.

At the end of the day I’ll take it. For a tad more than $50 delivered, I have a 65 year-old card in a PSA 5 case with sharp corners. That’s not something you see every day. This card in a straight 5 recently sold on eBay for $86, an 8 of course something ridiculous like $700+.

Thanks guys for starting this thread. It’s changed my perception on OC/MC cards and what can still be appealing.


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[jchcollins]

Here is the back.


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[Republicaninmass]

Apparently sgc has also jumped on the kill the grade centering bandwagon. A psa 7 MC they told me would be an sgc 3! They used to be a haven for cards that were slightly off center or mc to get a fair grade based on corners and surface, but that ship has sailed.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

A psa 7 MC they told me would be an sgc 3! They used to be a haven for cards that were slightly off center or mc to get a fair grade based on corners and surface, but that ship has sailed.

That seems rather harsh, especially coming from SGC. A card with an otherwise 7 appearance even miscut is going to look pretty out of place in a 3 slab with other "NM" attributes. I hope this is not a larger trend...PSA I can understand going more with the popular sentiment, whim - making grading more difficult over time - but SGC has always had the reputation of being the fair graders with collectors.

In the end, if this continues - it just goes more to prove the point I've been trying to make for years - that all grading, no matter how "professional" - is subjective.

[steve B]

It's sad if that's true. Following the trendy thing isn't always good.

I thought this one was reasonably graded.


These two were maybe switched?

[JollyElm]

The top two cards, 9's without qualifiers, were/are listed for around $120 each. I ignored them and bought the nearly indistinguishable bottom card for, if I remember correctly, around $20. The only difference among the three is my card is a hair closer to the top border than the other pair. That's it.