|
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
. .... Sweet Caporal ..... Sovereign ... American Beauty__The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___PIEDMONT ........ COUPON ..... .... UZIT This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)]. Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206 An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series. One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ? This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363 meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca). In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle "error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11 Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints. So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here. And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________ INDEX Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted. Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters. Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints" Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards) Post #5......350/460 series backs identified Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series) Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's ! Post #93.....T206 "Proofs" Post #96.....UZIT checklist Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911) Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ? Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued) Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint) Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects...... Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005 Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds" Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ? Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one ! Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ? Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ? Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ? Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ? Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards Posts #801 >> 823.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ? Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited) Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card Posts #1004 >> 1034.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's Posts #1035 >> 1050.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top Posts #1051 >> 1066.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top Posts #1068 >> 1070.....Imagine the T206 guys come alive, great read about the 1904 season Posts #1071 >> 1086....."pet peeves" regarding certain T206's...and tell us of your's ? Posts #1087 >> 1100.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s) Posts #1101 >> 1150.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s) Posts #1151 >> 1160.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s) Posts #1161 >> 1193.....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb Posts #1194 >> 1198.....Questionable action poses on certain T206's. Show us a questionable pose Posts #1199 >> 1200....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave" Posts #1201 >> 1207....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave" Posts #1208 >> 1213.....Revisiting the 150-only Series.....and, let's see your cards Posts #1214 >> 1225.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card survey (Updated) Posts #1226 >> 1237.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card and related subjects Posts #1238 >> 1250....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them Posts #1251 >> 1262....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them Posts #1263 >> 1281.....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards Posts #1283 >> 1294.....TRIVIA....Iffy call cost Team the Pennant. Who's the T206 player involved ? Posts #1295 >> 1300.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff Posts #1301 >> 1302.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff Post #1303....................INDEX Posts #1305 >> 1310.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff Posts #1311 >> 1314.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1316 >> 1318.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1328 >> 1332.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1335 >> 1341.......... THREAD HI-JACKED ..... Posts #1342 >> 1350.....Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do Posts #1351 >> 1373.....Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do Posts #1374 >> 1376.....Interesting association of AB350 (no-frame) T206's and AB460 T206's Posts #1377 >> 1398.....Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try Posts #1399 >> 1400.....TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ? Posts #1401 >> 1402.....TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ? Post #1403....................INDEX Posts #1412 >> 1434.....To Grade, or not to Grade....that is the Question regarding T206 set(s) Posts #1435 >> 1450.....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank Posts #1451 >> 1459.....Anti-tobacco guys....Connie Mack and Eddie Plank Posts #1460 >> 1472.....Stamps, BB cards, old Cars, which of them did you collect 1st ? Posts #1476 >> 1500.....Re-visiting PIEDMONT 460 Fac. #42 cards....are there any more than 72 of them ? Posts #1501 >> 1537.....Re-visiting PIEDMONT 460 Fac. #42 cards....are there any more than 72 of them ? Posts #1538 >> 1550.....TRIVIA.....the NAME's the SAME..a T206 guy's name "coincides" with 1950's TOPPS guy Posts #1551 >> 1570.....TRIVIA.....the NAME's the SAME..a T206 guy's name "coincides" with 1950's TOPPS guy Posts #1571 >> 1578.....T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors. However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s). TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 10-28-2023 at 08:54 PM. Reason: Updated INDEX. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
T206 Reference / Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc..and, let's get your inputs
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Nov 2006, Barry Sloate informed me that he had acquired a T206 collection including 300 cards with Sovereign backs. These cards would be in his November auction. I won 262 of these cards (including 38 HOFers). Having 60 - Sovereign cards to start with, I was determined to complete this set. I do not need the "Big 6", nor Lundgren, nor the Southern Leaguers (48 cards), I thought this project would be easy. However, early in this game I realized that the big challenge would be to figure out which subjects were Not Printed with Sovereign backs. By the Fall of 2007, I had completed this Sovereign set....and, I was confident that I had figured out which T206's were not printed with Sovereign backs. And, I am happy to say that my list of No-Prints have withstood the test of time. A complete SOVEREIGN-only set comprises of 402 different subjects. And, if you are really "gung ho"....go for a master SOVEREIGN set comprising of 476 cards. During the Sovereign press runs, American Litho (ALC) introduced a new feature into the T206's....the 350/460 series. ALC selected from the 350-only series 6 subjects **. And, printed them with Sovereign 460 backs during the printing of the 460-only series (46 subjects). Note that the Sovereign 460 versions of these 6 subjects are considerably tougher to find relative to the regular 46 subjects in the 460-only series. Shown here are the Six Super-Prints with their SOVEREIGN 350 backs and their SOVEREIGN 460 backs...... . ------- ............ The 350/460 story continues in the following post with a complete array display of the 66 subjects (with Sovereign 350 backs) which ALC designated for the 350/460 series. ** Note.. Scot Reader's excellent research revealed that these 6 subjects were printed in larger quantities, and with more Tobacco brands than any of the other subjects in the T206 set. In his book titled "Inside T206", Scot identifies these 6 guys as the " Super-Prints ". TED Z . Last edited by Leon; 08-18-2023 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
This thread has become historic on our forum over time. Nicely done, Ted. Thanks for sharing!!
__________________
Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 08-10-2019 at 08:40 AM. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series
* * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *
<<>> Continuing from post #2, illustrated here are the 66 subjects that American Lithographic selected for the 350/460 series. American Litho printed the backs of these 66 cards using an apple green colored ink (instead of the deep green seen on the backs of all the other SOVEREIGN cards). For more info on this topic, check-out this thread posted in 2009....Sovereign phantom "350/460" series Here is my concept of a 72-card sheet arrangement of these 66 subjects (Super-Prints are double-printed **) v.................................... Six super-prints ....................................v The next two posts will get more into the "nitty-gritty" of this mystifying 350/460 series......especially regarding their front/back combos. ** Note I show the super-prints Double-Printed (D-P) on this sheet, since several large T206 surveys have indicated that the 6 super-prints were D-P. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 08-19-2017 at 03:35 PM. Reason: Correct typo. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
T206 Reference.....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, let's get your inputs
* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
350/460 series subjects A picture is worth 1000 words......so, here are the 22 tobacco advertisement backs that are available on the T206 Subjects in the 350/460 Series...... 460-type backs . . ............. Factory #42 ............. 350-type backs Assorted backs Stay tuned for the "rhyme-n-reason" of the mutually-exclusive front/back combos found with the 460-type backs in this 350/460 series. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 03-11-2018 at 06:02 PM. Reason: Correct typo. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks, I really appreciate your compliments, Leon. TED Z . |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
Very cool Ted...It's awesome to see so many of your t's in a bunch! This is the best I can do for now...a few odd remaining t's!
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
T206 Reference....Reflections, Theory's......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
350/460 series subjects Now, continuing our study of the 63 subjects in the 350/460 series.....although 22 T-brands were illustrated in the previous post, not all the 63 subjects were printed with the rare AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, BROAD LEAF 460, Red HINDU, and UZIT backs. A theory was first presented in a thread posted April 2010 which hypothesized that the AB 460 and UZIT cards were printed as pairs. Also, BL 460 and red HINDU cards were printed as pairs. Furthermore, these two sets of pairs are mutually exclusive. Refer to.... 350/460 mutually-exclusive cards ....post #14. I've constructed the following scans of the 350/460 series subjects in order to illustrate how the mutually-exclusive 460-type (rare) backs in this series resulted from American Lithographic separating these 63 subjects into two print groups. Group A of the 350/460 series includes 35 subjects printed and issued with these four 460-type backs (circa..late 1910 > early 1911). . . . Factory #25 VA ......................... Factory#42 N.C. Conversely, these 35 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.... AMERICAN BEAUTY 460....UZIT Group A . ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Group B Group B of the 350/460 series includes 28 subjects printed and issued with these two 460-type backs (circa..Feb-Mar 1911). . Conversely, these 28 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 25.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42.. red HINDU.. BROAD LEAF 460 Refer to post #5 in this thread which displays a T206 collection of 33 different "scrap subjects" coinciding with the cards of Group A shown above...... ....why certain T-brands are mutually-exclusive Stay tuned for the next Reference or Reflections. New topic....I'll surprise you ? TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 11-26-2021 at 06:39 AM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Hey Pete Thanks for the "awesome"....it's one of my favorite adjectives. Judging from your scan, we both collect similar pieces of colorful cardboard (besides BB cards). Take care......hope to see you at the National this summer. TED Z . |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
TedZ wrote:
** Note.. Scot Reader's excellent research revealed that these 6 subjects were printed in larger quantities, and with more Tobacco brands than any of the other subjects in the T206 set. In his book titled "Inside T206", Scot identifies these 6 guys as the " Super-Prints ". Lastly, Ted, thanks for this acknowledgement. The existence of the six "superprints" was probably the most interesting of the discoveries revealed in my first (2006) version of Inside T206. Last edited by sreader3; 04-09-2017 at 12:25 PM. |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Hi Scot
Joe P. was quite a character, here's my story. In the early 1980's, I published several articles in Bob Lemke's BASEBALL CARDS magazine regarding 1948 - 1953 BOWMAN BB & FB sets. There were variations and certain printing anomalies regarding cards in these sets that were not well understood in the hobby back then....and, I clarified them. Joe P. was a serious collector of these sets, and when he read my articles, he thought I was a "genius". We met at the 1984 National in New Jersey. He was such a friendly guy who could talk about the various aspects of sports cards for hours. Twenty years later when I joined the Net54 forum, and began posting my collecting experiences and ideas regarding the T206 set, Joe turned against me by telling me that "I didn't know what I was talking about". When I posted some of my early theory's (or surveys), Joe would respond with negative comments. If I did not respond to his posted comments, he would then call me at home and tell me in no uncertain terms that I was wrong. And, there was no way that I could converse with him in a meaningful manner. Joe had a good life, in the Military, Airlines, and as an Actor. I like to think of Joe when we first met in the 1980's. And, then again in the 1990's at Sotheby's (when they conducted the auction that sold the "Gretzky Wagner"). TED Z . |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Ted,
Confused...i post #2 you say "ALC selected from the 350-only series 6 subjects.." then in post #4 you state there are "66" subjects in 350/460 series...then further on in post #8 you mention "63" subjects. maybe i am misreading subtle differences in each context? Good stuff, thanks for compiling in one thread. jim |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Hi Jim The array of 66 subjects (in post #4) includes Joe Doyle, Simon Nicholls, and Bob Rhoades (who initially were intended to be continued into the 350/460 series). However, the Major League careers of these 3 guys ended prior to American Litho printing the 460-type backs. Thus, the 350/460 series consists of 63 subjects. TED Z . |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Ted,
Great story. Joe was a character. We had some good laughs on the phone before he passed. He was super friendly one-on-one. And, he had the ONLY copy of Schulte (Front View) Piedmont 350 in existence! (As you know he also had the Doyle Error). For years, Joe kept insisting on our calls that he had a copy of the then unconfirmed Schulte (Front View) with Piedmont 350 but could not figure out how to send me a scan! I believed he had the card, but was blown-away that he didn't have a scanner (or at least couldn't figure out how to use it). He was old school -- which is actually endearing considering we are talking about old baseball cards that are cherished across generations. Good stuff. Scot Quote:
Last edited by sreader3; 04-10-2017 at 06:02 PM. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
T206 Reference.....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, let's get your inputs
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
Expanding on the A-B-C-D sub-set, Darren (posts #65 & 73) of T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection" added the 1910 COUPON cards, whose backs are identical to the stylized design of the A-B-C-D cards. Providing us proof that the timeline of 1910 COUPON (T213-1) set was issued Spring / Summer of 1910. The blue Chase is my favorite T206 subject. If a DRUM card of Mr. Chase ever shows up, I might have a chance to complete this A - B - C - C - D sub-set. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 11-23-2018 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * There has been much controversy on this forum as to whether the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards belong to the T206 "family". And, much of this is due to mis-information. So, here are the facts.... as Detective Sergeant Joe Friday (from the TV series, Dragnet) would ask...." Just the facts, man ? "...... The Macon (Georgia) Telegraph newspaper was running advertisements introducing ATC's COUPON cigarette brand in the Spring of 1910. And, as shown, in the prior post here, the 1910 COUPON cards' backs were printed with the same stylized design as the backs of the AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, and DRUM cards (which we know were issued in the Spring / Summer of 1910). The group of 48 subjects (Major Leaguers) were selected from an early print run of the 350-only series (illustrated in the 48-card array shown here). And, the Southern Association subjects (20 cards) were printed from the 48 - Southern Leaguers in the T206 set. Furthermore, unlike the T213-2 and T213-3 cards (with blue captions), the 1910 COUPON cards' captions were printed with Brown ink. The minor exception with the 1910 COUPON (with respect to the T206 cards) is that American Litho printed the 1910 COUPON cards on "thinner" cardboard. This was done simply because these cards were not intended to serve as Cigarette pack " stiffeners ". The initial marketing of the COUPON cigarette brand was not in packs, instead these cigarettes were packaged in the standard cigarette cartons (11" x 3" x 2") of that era, which were labelled " COUPON Cigarettes ", and contained 100's of cigarettes. The 1910 Coupon cards were placed inside these cartons, or "spot-glued" on the outside of the carton (indicative of the red Cobb's paper loss on its back, as shown below). Jefferson Burdick didn't have the benefit of the "Internet" when he included the 1910 COUPON set in with his classification of the T213-2 and T213-3 sets which were cards issued 1914 - 1915 (his stated timeline). It's my opinion that Burdick would have included the T213-1 in his classification of the T206's, had he known what we now know. Furthermore, we now know that the T213-2 and T213-3 cards were actually issued 1914 - 1919. Click on this thread for the 1910 COUPON checklist.... FYI....1910 COUPON checklist (T213-1) 1910 COUPON (T213-1) Major League (48) subjects The Six Super Prints are seldom seen with the 1910 COUPON advertisement. . . TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 09-10-2023 at 08:18 AM. Reason: Correct typo. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
T206 Reference.....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, let's get your inputs
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
Jim Blumenthal started the "ball rolling" regarding the Ty Cobb/TY COBB card when he posted this thread in T2006...... Senator Russel's tobacco card collection...... Jim never waivered in his belief that this Ty Cobb card should have been classified as a T206. Seven years ago this month, Jon Canfield posted this Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb thread that sparked some spirited discussion......including information revealing that the Ty Cobb Cut Plug Smoking Tobacco was marketed in the Spring of 1910...... What We Have Learned About Ty Cobbs With a Ty Cobb Back Check-it-out TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 10-13-2017 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Correct typo. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
T206 Reference.....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, let's get your inputs
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
This project has been a work in progress on Net54 since 2005. Additional inputs (or corrections) to these checklists are greatly appreciated. In Jan 2011, for ease of access, I consolidated into a single thread the T206 front/back surveys which were previously conducted on Net54. Furthermore, included is the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) and RED CROSS (T215-1) checklists, as these sets fall under the "T206 rubric" in that they are White-Bordered, Brown-Captioned Tobacco cards printed and issued by American Lithographic within the 1909 - 1911 timeline. And included is the Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back (issued Spring/Summer 1910), since it also conforms to the above stated T206 rubric. T206 confirmed front/back surveys with respect to T-brand. AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 & 460 BROAD LEAF 350 & 460 BROAD LEAF 460 CAROLINA BRIGHTS CYCLE 350 & 460 DRUM EL PRINCIPE de GALES Brown HINDU Red HINDU LENOX OLD MILL PIEDMONT POLAR BEAR SOVEREIGN SWEET CAPORAL TOLSTOI UZIT 1910 COUPON (T213-1) 1910-1912 RED CROSS (T215-1) Ty Cobb / "TY COBB" Tobacco TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 06-28-2017 at 10:35 PM. |
#19
|
||||
|
||||
Howie Camnitz?
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
Joe McGinnity?
|
#21
|
||||
|
||||
|
#22
|
||||
|
||||
Larry Corcoran had 74!!! Of course not a t206
Last edited by Thromdog; 02-10-2018 at 09:19 PM. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theory's...TRIVIA QUIZ #2...1st correct answer wins T206
OK guys,
So far Joe McGinnity leads the pack. At this point, Nat (post # 341) appears to be the winner of this quiz. 56......Joe McGinnity (1899-1900) 52......Vic Willis (1898-1899) 48......Russ Ford (1910-1911) 37......Eddie Plank (1901-1902) 37......Ed Reulbach (1905-1906) 36......Cy Young (1890-1891) We'll see if there are any more responses by 9 PM (EST) tonite. Then, I will declare the winner. Thanks to everyone who participated in this quiz. TED Z . |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theory's...TRIVIA QUIZ #2...1st correct answer wins T206
Nat you are the Trivia King tonite. Email me and we'll talk about the T206 card that I'm going to send you..... tedzan11@comcast.net TED Z . |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theory's....TRIVIA QUIZ...1st correct answer wins a T206
Chris and Nick The T206 cards awarded to you for the correct answers to the Trivia quiz #1 and #2 will be in the mail to you today. Thanks for participating in these Trivia quizzes. TED Z . |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
I received the card today. Thanks so much, Ted!
|
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Deleted
Double post.
Last edited by tedzan; 02-23-2018 at 07:26 PM. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Apologies if this is not the correct thread for this question, but I didn't want to start a new thread for what is probably a basic question.
My monster number is 1, so my T206 knowledge is very limited. I recently picked up a Bill Clymer in rough shape. I just happened to notice that there appears to be extra bright red spots on his face and hands. I have heard of missing red ink, but never extra red ink? Does anybody have an explanation as to what might cause this discoloration? Does it change any thing from a value standpoint? Apologies for the photo, I am currently unable to take a decent scan. |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Hi The "redness" that appears on Clymer's cheeks, lips, and left hand varies from card to card. On some Clymer cards it is very faint, while others (like yours) it is more intense. Good luck on collecting the T206's. TED Z . |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
INDEX to this T206 Reference thread's posts and story's....UPDATED
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206 An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series. Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ? Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts. In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle "error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11 Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints" Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards) Post #5......350/460 series backs identified Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series) Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's ! Post #93.....T206 "Proofs" Post #96.....UZIT checklist Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911) Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ? Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued) Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint) Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited) Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects...... Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors. However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s). TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 03-13-2018 at 07:47 PM. |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
522 of the 524 subjects** which comprise a complete T206 set were printed with PIEDMONT backs. The PIEDMONT brand dominates the T206 population to the tune of 52 - 55%. The following is a complete list of the PIEDMONT cards with respect to the Series they were printed in. The SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 sub-set ranks 2nd in this category....as it consists of 469 subjects printed with this back. PIEDMONT 150 150 Series..................156 subjects Abbaticchio (brown sleeves) Alperman Ames (hands at chest) Ames (portrait) Ball (New York) Bates Beaumont Bell (hands over head) Bender (portrait) Bergen (bat) Birmingham Bowerman Bradley (portrait) Bransfield Bresnahan (portrait) Bridwell (portrait-no cap) M. Brown (Cubs) M. Brown (portrait) G. Brown (Chicago Nat'l) Burch (batting) Camnitz (arms folded) Chance (red portrait) Chase (pink portrait) Chase (white cap) Chesbro Cicotte Clarke (portrait) Clarke (bat) JJ Clarke Cobb (green) Cobb (bat on shoulder) Conroy (fielding) Coveleski Crandall (no cap) Crawford (throwing) Criger Criss Dahlen (Boston Nat'l) George Davis (Chicago) Harry Davis (A's) Delehanty (Washington) Devlin Donlin (fielding) Donlin (seated) Donohue Donovan (portrait) Dooin Doolin Dougherty (portrait) L. Doyle (throwing) Durham Elberfeld (New York) Evers (bat-blue sky) Evers (portrait) Ewing Ferris Flick Ganley Gibson Gilbert Goode Griffith (portrait) Hahn Hemphill Herzog (New York) Hinchman (Cleveland) Isbell Jacklitsch Jennings (portrait) Johnson (portrait) F. Jones (portrait) F. Jones (hands at hips) Tom Jones Jordan (portrait) Joss (portrait) Karger Keeler (portrait) Keeler (bat) Killian (pitching) Kleinow (bat) Kling Konetchy (glove high) Lajoie (portrait) Lajoie (throwing) Lake (New York) Leach (portrait) Leifield (pitching) Liebhardt Lindaman Lobert Lumley Lundgren (Cubs) Magie (portrait)....[ERROR] Magee (portrait) Manning (bat) Marquard (hands at side) Mathewson (portrait) Mathewson (white cap) McGraw (portrait-no cap) McGraw (pointing) McIntyre (Brooklyn) McQuillan (ball in hand) Merkle (portrait) Mullin (throwing) Murphy (throwing) Nicholls (hands on knees) Niles Oldring (fielding) O'Leary (portrait) Overall (portrait) Owen Parent Pastorius Pattee Pelty (horizontal) Plank Powell Powers Reulbach (glove) Ritchey Rucker (portrait) Schaefer (Detroit) Schlei (catching) Schmidt (throwing) Schulte (front view) Seymour (batting) Shaw (St Louis Nat'L) Sheckard (no glove) Shipke F. Smith (Chicago) Spade Spencer Stahl (no glove) Steinfeldt (portrait) Stone Stovall (portrait) Sullivan L. Tannehill (Chicago) Tenney Tinker (portrait) Tinker (hands on knees) Turner Waddell (portrait) Waddell (throwing) Honus Wagner Wagner (bat on left) Wallace Walsh Weimer Doc White (portrait) Wilhelm (hands at chest) Williams Willis (portrait) Wiltse (portrait-no cap) CYoung (portrait) CYoung (bare hand) ** Note......The Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis variations) were printed only with POLAR BEAR backs. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 02-20-2021 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
PIEDMONT 350
350-only Series..................Major League subjects = 123 Abstein Arellanes Atz Barbeau Barry (A's) Beck Becker Bender (trees) Bescher (portrait) Bliss Bresnahan (bat) G. Brown (Washington) Burns Bush Byrne Campbell Carrigan Charles Collins (A's) Cree Dahlen (Brooklyn) Demmitt (New York) Dineen Donovan (throwing) Doolan (fielding) Downey (fielding) Joe Doyle (NY Nat'L)......[ERROR] Joe Doyle (New York) Dubuc Dunn (Brooklyn) Dygert Easterly Egan Elberfeld (portrait-Washington) Engle Evans Ferguson Fiene (portrait) Fiene (throwing) Fletcher Fromme Gasper Graham (Boston) Graham (St Louis) Gray Groom Hartsel Hoblitzell Hoffman (St Louis) Hofman Howard (Chicago) Howell (portrait) Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands at mouth) Hulswitt Hunter Jones (Detroit) Killian (portrait) Kleinow (catching--New York) Knabe Knight (portrait) Knight (bat) Krause (portrait) Krause (pitching) Kroh Laporte Lennox Livingstone Lord Maddox Marquard (portrait) Marshall Mattern McAleese McBride McCormick Mc Elveen McIntyre (Detroit) McLean Milan Miller (Pittsburg) Mitchell (Cinci) Moran (Chicago) Moriarty Mowery Mullen (portrait) Murray (bat) Myers (bat) Myers (fielding) Nicholls (bat) Oakes O'Hara (New York) Paskert Perring Pfeister (seated) Phelps Phillippe Purtell Quinn Raymond Rhoades (arm extended) Rhoades (hands at chest) Rhodes Rossman Schmidt (portrait) Scott F. Smith (Chicago--white cap) Snodgrass (bat) Speaker Stanage Starr Stephens Street (portrait) Summers Sweeney (Boston) J. Tannehill (Washington) Thomas Titus Unglaub Warhop Willett Wilson Zimmerman 350-only Series..................Minor League subjects = 86 Abbott Adkins Anderson Armbruster Arndt Barger Barry (Milwaukee) Batch Beckley Blackburne Brain Brashear Burchell Burke Butler Carr Casey Cassidy Chappelle Clark Clancy Clymer Collins (Minneapolis) Congalton Cravath Cross Davidson Delehanty Dessau Dorner Downs Dunn (Baltimore) Flanagan Freeman Ganzel Grimshaw Hall Hallman Hannifan Hayden Hinchman (Toledo) Hoffman (Providence) Jackson Kelley Kisinger Kruger Lattimore Lavender Lennox Lundgren (KC) Malarkey Maloney McGann McGinley McGinnity McGlynn Milligan Mitchell (Toronto) Moeller Moran (Providence) Nattress Oberlin O'Brien O'Neill Phelan Pickering Poland Puttman Quillen Randall Ritter Rudolph Schirm Schlafly Schreck Shannon Sharpe Shaw (Providence) Slagle Smith (Buffalo) Strang Taylor Thielmann White (Buffalo) Wright Irv Young Southern League Series..................48 subjects Bastian Bay Bernhard Breitenstein Carey Coles Cranston Ellam Foster Fritz Greminger Guiheen Hart (Little Rock) Hart (Montgomery) Helm Hickman Hooker Howard (Savannah) Jordan (Atlanta) Kiernan King Lafitte Lentz Lipe Manion McCauley Miller Molesworth Mullaney Orth Otey Paige Perdue Persons Reagan Revelle Rockenfeld Ryan Seitz Shaughnessy Sid Smith (Atlanta) Smith (Shreveport) Stark Thebo Thornton Violat Westlake White (Houston) Information on the PIEDMONT 350/460 series and the 460-only series will follow. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 03-13-2018 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
Ted - I think the 350-only minor league list needs Moran (Providence) in place of Maddox.
Thanks for putting together these lists. Great information.
__________________
Looking for a T206 Jimmy Lavender Cycle back plus several American Beauty and Tolstoi backs for Providence players. Successful sales transactions with jamorton215, gorditadogg, myerburg311, TAFKADixie, jimq16415, Thromdog, CardPadre |
#34
|
||||
|
||||
Hi Ted, thanks for always providing such top notch T206 information. I notice you say you speculate about such things as players next to each other on a sheet and other things. My question is, did the printers not keep records or have they all been destroyed? Sorry if this has been answered before.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Numerous successful transactions on Net54, just ask for references. https://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/gregr2 |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure
Quote:
Thanks Greg, and, you ask a great question. Apparently, nothing was saved from American Litho's printing days of their various sets of tobacco cards (1909 - 1919). Millions and millions of cards were produced, and not even a single sheet of cards has been discovered. This is really very strange. The only example which I know of players horizontally adjacent to each other on a sheet is Chance (yellow portrait) and Cobb (red portrait), because I have seen a mis-cut T206 indicating this. Years ago I was in downtown Manhattan, so I ventured over to Park Ave. and E 19th Street where the American Lithographic building still stands. I entered it, hoping to find a showroom (or some kind of museum) displaying all the great stuff this great printing Company produced in the early 20th Century. What I found were many professional offices, but no showrooms and no displays of any kind. The only thing I got out that visit was this photo I took of the building's entrance. One of the competitors to American Lithographic (ALC) was Schmidt Lithography in San Francisco. They produced the OBAK cards. If you go to San Francisco, visit the museum that Schmidt Lithography has on display. It's a real shame that ALC did not do the same. TED Z . |
#36
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
There are several horizontal miscut T206's Here are the ones I have scans of... Stephens with a part Of Rossman Stephens - Rossman Miscut.jpg Sheckard with Part of Goode, these two are also Neighbors on a plate scratch sheet. Sheckard-Goode - Copy.jpg Sheckard - Goode Plate Scratch - Copy - Copy.jpg Bergen with part of Herzog (Boston) that Jantz picked up at last years national Bergen - Herzog - Copy.jpg horizontal sheet mates can also be found on many of the ghosts... Wilson Ghost - Copy.jpg Charles-Fletcher.jpg on scraps such as the test print scrap.... Test Print Scrap - Copy.jpg and on all of the plate scratch sheets attachmentU8OPTOUU.jpg Donlin-Mullin-Tannehill.jpg |
#37
|
||||
|
||||
[QUOTE=Pat R;1782169]
Bergen with part of Herzog (Boston) that Jantz picked up at last years national Attachment 317938 I sold that one to Jantz. Sad to think I won't be seeing him again.
__________________
Please visit my website at http://t206.monkberry.com/index.html |
#38
|
||||
|
||||
I sold that one to Jantz. Sad to think I won't be seeing him again.[/QUOTE]
Hi Ed, Yes I remember when he posted it that he said he had bought it off you. Jantz was one of those few people that you never heard anyone that had anything bad to say about him. I used to meet up with him at all the nationals that I went to and I've lost interest in going this year after hearing about his passing. |
#39
|
||||
|
||||
Thanks for continuing to post all of this great information Ted. It is nice to have a thread at the top of the board that deals with something other than complaining.
__________________
Collection: https://www.flickr.com/photos/132359235@N05/sets/ Ebay listings: https://www.ebay.com/sch/harrydoyle/...p2047675.l2562 Last edited by Jobu; 06-02-2018 at 01:06 PM. |
#40
|
||||
|
||||
Hi Ted,
Well worth reading is an article written by Andy Broome - Printing The Monster. The article explores the logistics of assembling the player permission and images needed to produce such an enormous checklist anticipated and the clever way it was done. The connection between Joseph P. Knapp, the founder and head of the American Lithographic Company, and James B. Duke, head of the American Tobacco Company, for the printing of nearly all T-cards inserted into ATC products. Explains the chromolithography process where T206 card sheets are passed through the printer six times for the six different layers of colors and the accuracy needed to keep perfect alignment. Blurry and ghost images as a result of any misalignment. Included in the engineering is the necessary ink color sequence of the layers in the printing. Beside the image of the entrance to the ALC building there are pictures of a 10 ton lithopress and cutters that cut finished cardsheets of the T206 cards. Published by Beckett Vintage Collector April, 2018. |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks Jerry,
I will check out Andy Broome's article. TED Z . |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
i always enjoy seeing the latest research uncovered by the plate scratches. awesome groundbreaking work patrick
|
#43
|
|||
|
|||
Vertical OM miscut w/ 2 players
Hi all—
Would love assistance with some detective work: According to the centennnial edition of Inside T206, the only cards known to be vertically miscut AND show 2 different players are from P350-only sheets. It was a result of the Pirates winning the 1909 WS and being long-printed with some sharing vertical rows with other players. However, I recently acquired an Old Mill back Doc Casey that is vertically miscut, and features a different player at the bottom of the card. 1) Has anyone seen an OM miscut like this? 2) What could be the explanation for the vertical positioning of the different cards like this? Were players alternating vertically in OM? 3) Who might the player with the dark blue background be? Thanks in advance for your input and expertise. Looking forward to hearing theories. Justin Last edited by Silverskulls; 09-08-2018 at 04:37 PM. |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Hi Justin #1....I have seen quite a number of mis-cuts like your Casey (but not Casey....seen other T206's). #2....Multiple printings (vertically) of the same T206 subject was commonplace. Followed by a different subject (above and below) that subject. This process was independent of the T206 back. Since the fronts were printed first. #3...." Who might the player with the dark blue background be? " Casey is a 350-only Series subject, and many T206's in this series have dark blue backgrounds. It's anyone's guess which T206 is below Casey. TED Z . |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
Thank you, Ted! Very helpful. The string is a treasure trove.
|
#46
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I might have missed a couple of the dark blue subjects from print group 2 but if you eliminate the ones that haven't been confirmed or are Old Mill no prints you're left with these candidates. Batch Bender (with trees) Brain Cree Knight (with bat) Krause (portrait) Livingstone Quillen Bender and Cree have different back patterns than Casey and there is a Livingstone two name PD350 with Maloney at the top so if you eliminate these three as strong candidates you're left with these five. Batch Brain Knight (with bat) Krause (portrait) Quillen If you have these five in hand to compare with your Casey you might be able to narrow it down further. Very nice card congratulations on picking it up! Last edited by Pat R; 09-09-2018 at 01:20 PM. |
#47
|
||||
|
||||
Like I need an excuse but the Nascar race was rained out and it's
cool and overcast here so I was bored. The colors vary from card to card and can also vary on the same card with different scans. These are all Old Mill's and I didn't resize the scans because I didn't want to distort the colors. Casey - Batch.jpg Casey - Brain.jpg Casey - Knight.jpg Casey - Krause.jpg Casey - Quillen.jpg My choice would be Knight or Krause slightly favoring Knight. |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
T206 Reference....Reflections, etc..... A Tale of Two Unique UZIT cards' "finds"
Justin
Also, either one of these Hal Chase cards could have been the card below your Casey card. These cards were initially printed on an early 350-only series sheet (circa Spring 1910). TED Z . |
#49
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Old Mill's with Blue backgrounds and any of them could have been the card below Casey. I wouldn't consider the Chase blue portrait a strong candidate though since there's a two name PD350 of Chase with Zimmerman on top. |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks guys so much for all of your expertise. I'll continuing digging and see if I can get closer to confirming the blue card showing at the bottom, or figuring out what the card above Casey might be.
Justin Quote:
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Consolidated access to the 15 - T206 T-brand (front/back) surveys....UPDATED | tedzan | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 58 | 03-13-2015 02:44 PM |
Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ? | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 176 | 07-13-2009 03:17 PM |
A survey about more surveys | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 22 | 05-13-2007 02:50 PM |
POLAR BEAR subset....need your Inputs ? | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 50 | 04-06-2007 07:11 PM |
T206 Wagner-Theory | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 24 | 03-20-2007 08:33 PM |