I got screwed over on the BST today!

[cozmokramer]

Well it finally happened. I got screwed over right here on the BST by one of our own.

A card was listed for sale this morning and we agreed to a price of $3275 and I made an immediate PayPal FF payment. They agreed to ship tomorrow via overnight delivery.

This card was an upgrade for me so I called a friend that was interested in my lower condition card and he came over, we worked out a deal, he paid cash and left with the card. I had to sell it to to cover the cost of the new card.

This evening I get contacted by the seller, his situation has changed and he decided not to sell the card to me and refunded my $3275.

So now I'm out the new card and I no longer have my lower graded one. It will cost me MORE just to replace the one I sold to my friend today... Not to mention PayPal now has a hold on the refund of $3275 for 3-4 days.

Thanks Gobucsmagic74 for ruining my weekend.

Eric Kramer

I am very sorry Eric. As I mentioned in our PM's I will absolutely give you first crack at this card at the same price we agreed upon once I am able to find a suitable upgrade or replacement as a deal I had in place, which made this card available, was also reneged on. I'm not sure what else I can do. I don't get the issue with PayPal as I issued a straight refund, but I understand your frustration on all levels. Again, my sincerest apologies.

[T206Collector]

I just made a deal on the BST for an upgrade of my own, but I won't sell the lesser condition card until I get the upgrade in hand. This is a common phenomenon, and I don't really think anyone is to blame here in this instance.

[UnVme7]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I just made a deal on the BST for an upgrade of my own, but I won't sell the lesser condition card until I get the upgrade in hand. This is a common phenomenon, and I don't really think anyone is to blame here in this instance.

Technically, yes. But a deal is a deal. The $$$ has switched hands. Probably should've waited to have card in hand, but that's still crummy to have a deal in place, accept the money and, "whoops sorry, something changed on my end. Refund!!"

If this was a $100 card, I'd say just move on, but it's not. Kind of a garbage move if you ask me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Lame. Honor the deal.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Lame. Honor the deal.

agreed.

(for only the 3rd time, I think)

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by UnVme7

Technically, yes. But a deal is a deal. The $$$ has switched hands. Probably should've waited to have card in hand, but that's still crummy to have a deal in place, accept the money and, "whoops sorry, something changed on my end. Refund!!"

If this was a $100 card, I'd say just move on, but it's not. Kind of a garbage move if you ask me.

Yeah, I get that. I'm just saying it is not a safe practice to dump a card you love for an upgrade without getting the upgrade in hand first. Stuff happens. Postal workers screw up. Deals fall through after digital cash changes hands.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Yeah, I get that. I'm just saying it is not a safe practice to dump a card you love for an upgrade without getting the upgrade in hand first. Stuff happens. Postal workers screw up. Deals fall through after digital cash changes hands.

I agree with ya Paul, but really it's beside the main point...the fact the the OP sold his card without having the new one in-hand is on him, but a sale is a sale and backing out is a shitty move.

IMO Dan should definitely honor the sale and I'd expect him to wake up tomorrow morning and make this right. I have a bad feeling this isn't going to work out well for him otherwise.

[UnVme7]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Yeah, I get that. I'm just saying it is not a safe practice to dump a card you love for an upgrade without getting the upgrade in hand first. Stuff happens. Postal workers screw up. Deals fall through after digital cash changes hands.

Yep, completely agree with that. But as far as backing out of deal, yeah that sucks.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I am very sorry Eric. As I mentioned in our PM's I will absolutely give you first crack at this card at the same price we agreed upon once I am able to find a suitable upgrade or replacement as a deal I had in place, which made this card available, was also reneged on. I'm not sure what else I can do. I don't get the issue with PayPal as I issued a straight refund, but I understand your frustration on all levels. Again, my sincerest apologies.

What happened is you got a raw deal and someone screwed you over, so you decided to pass the screw onto someone else that you made a deal with. that is wrong. if someone backed out on your deal, you DONT back out on the deal you subsequently made. that deal was not dependent on whether or not you received your card from the first guy as far as cozmo is concerned. That wasn't your deal with him. When you make a deal and you don't have the card in hand from the first guy, YOU are assuming that risk. Why are you putting that risk on the next guy??? What's wrong with you?

You needed to honor your deal and then deal with the first guy and not ruin cozmo's day while yours is saved. the first guy didn't screw over cozmo, he screwed you over, so why pass it along to the next innocent party. Be a man. Not sure what you can do? Honor your deal. It's a big pet peeve of mine when people do that. You should be kicked out for doing that. Who needs that?

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by travrosty

What happened is you got a raw deal and someone screwed you over, so you decided to pass the screw onto someone else that you made a deal with. that is wrong. if someone backed out on your deal, you DONT back out on the deal you subsequently made. that deal was not dependent on whether or not you received your card from the first guy as far as cozmo is concerned. That wasn't your deal with him. When you make a deal and you don't have the card in hand from the first guy, YOU are assuming that risk. Why are you putting that risk on the next guy??? What's wrong with you?

You needed to honor your deal and then deal with the first guy and not ruin cozmo's day while yours is saved. the first guy didn't screw over cozmo, he screwed you over, so why pass it along to the next innocent party. Be a man. Not sure what you can do? Honor your deal. It's a big pet peeve of mine when people do that. You should be kicked out for doing that. Who needs that?

+1...BE A MAN!!!

I don't hate you Dan, but I hate what you did...no room for this on our board. I second that you should take a break from the BST

[chaddurbin]

wrong info.

[Kevin.Shenker]

Originally Posted by travrosty

What happened is you got a raw deal and someone screwed you over, so you decided to pass the screw onto someone else that you made a deal with. that is wrong. if someone backed out on your deal, you DONT back out on the deal you subsequently made. that deal was not dependent on whether or not you received your card from the first guy as far as cozmo is concerned. That wasn't your deal with him. When you make a deal and you don't have the card in hand from the first guy, YOU are assuming that risk. Why are you putting that risk on the next guy??? What's wrong with you?

You needed to honor your deal and then deal with the first guy and not ruin cozmo's day while yours is saved. the first guy didn't screw over cozmo, he screwed you over, so why pass it along to the next innocent party. Be a man. Not sure what you can do? Honor your deal. It's a big pet peeve of mine when people do that. You should be kicked out for doing that. Who needs that?

I would say this is a perfect assessment of the situation. You definitely passed the bad goods along.

[pclpads]

I know the heading over the BST says, "caveat emptor." But here it seems or should seem that caution isn't necessary. Obviously I am in error. Just my dos centavos, but I thing Gobucsmagic74 should be suspended from all activity on this board for a lengthy and substantial period. Too harsh? Don't think so. He deliberately and knowingly screwed a board member for his own self interests. In his twisted thinking, simply giving a PP refund makes it all ok. It doesn't. Not by a long shot.

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by travrosty

What happened is you got a raw deal and someone screwed you over, so you decided to pass the screw onto someone else that you made a deal with. that is wrong. if someone backed out on your deal, you DONT back out on the deal you subsequently made. that deal was not dependent on whether or not you received your card from the first guy as far as cozmo is concerned. That wasn't your deal with him. When you make a deal and you don't have the card in hand from the first guy, YOU are assuming that risk. Why are you putting that risk on the next guy??? What's wrong with you?

You needed to honor your deal and then deal with the first guy and not ruin cozmo's day while yours is saved. the first guy didn't screw over cozmo, he screwed you over, so why pass it along to the next innocent party. Be a man. Not sure what you can do? Honor your deal. It's a big pet peeve of mine when people do that. You should be kicked out for doing that. Who needs that?

This. Thank you, Travis! At 5:00 a.m. I'm not awake enough to write something as clearly as Travis did, but this is my sentiment exactly.

Dan-you chose to pass on the screw job to someone else....

[glynparson]

Is 100% correct.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I'm not sure what else I can do.

It's pretty simple, really. You can be a man, and honor your word. You may not get your replacement right away, and you may end up paying more than you would have. Is this card really worth ruining your reputation over?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

It's pretty simple, really. You can be a man, and honor your word. You may not get your replacement right away, and you may end up paying more than you would have. Is this card really worth ruining your reputation over?

That Dan did not even see that as an option -- thus the "what else can I do?" -- is pretty disturbing.

[Luke]

Wow, that's brutal. Sorry to hear that Eric.

I had the same guy (Gobucsmagic74) pull a really shady move on me about a year ago. I had a WTB thread open in the BST indicating which e95s I needed. He bought contacted a friend of mine (he didn't realize it was a friend of mine) and bought one of the cards I needed, then contacted me saying he would sell me the card for $200 more than he had just agreed to pay my friend. He was going to pay by check, so he was going to find out if he could flip it to me and make a huge profit off of me with no risk before actually paying for the card.

It's a shame that there are guys like that doing business on the board. But the good news is that 99.9% of my interactions on the BST have been positive.

I hope you can find a solution or at least get another copy of the card without being out too much money.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

Wow, that's brutal. Sorry to hear that Eric.



I had the same guy (Gobucsmagic74) pull a really shady move on me about a year ago. I had a WTB thread open in the BST indicating which e95s I needed. He bought contacted a friend of mine (he didn't realize it was a friend of mine) and bought one of the cards I needed, then contacted me saying he would sell me the card for $200 more than he had just agreed to pay my friend. He was going to pay by check, so he was going to find out if he could flip it to me and make a huge profit off of me with no risk before actually paying for the card.



It's a shame that there are guys like that doing business on the board. But the good news is that 99.9% of my interactions on the BST have been positive.



I hope you can find a solution or at least get another copy of the card without being out too much money.

This makes me nauseous.

[bobbyw8469]

Crap move.

[frankbmd]

Where is that "ignore list" button again?

Originally Posted by 4815162342

This makes me nauseous.

It shouldn't because it's inaccurate

[cozmokramer]

This chain of events and your change in mind leaves me not only without your Mantle rookie, but now without my original one as well.

Actually Luke, I did pay by check and I did see your thread looking for the card AFTER I had already made the deal and sent the check out. You are absolutely incorrect in your assertion that I tried to make a deal with you prior to purchasing the card, although I do admit that I had not yet received the card. I won't apologize for flipping cards, if I didn't I wouldn't be able to finance my collection.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I did see your thread looking for the card AFTER I had already made the deal and sent the check out. You are absolutely incorrect in your assertion that I tried to make a deal with you prior to purchasing the card, although I do admit that I had not yet received the card. I won't apologize for flipping cards, if I didn't I wouldn't be able to finance my collection.

Well, at least that's impossibly convoluted clear.

Another hobby fly-by-night type to avoid.

Originally Posted by bcornell

Well, at least that's impossibly convoluted clear.

Another hobby fly-by-night type to avoid.

What do you need clarified Bill? I bought a card and offered it to someone who was looking for it in BST. The two were friends and decided I was doing something shady when I wasn't. The end.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Actually Luke, I did pay by check and I did see your thread looking for the card AFTER I had already made the deal and sent the check out. You are absolutely incorrect in your assertion that I tried to make a deal with you prior to purchasing the card, although I do admit that I had not yet received the card. I won't apologize for flipping cards, if I didn't I wouldn't be able to finance my collection.

You agreed to purchase the card and then offered to sell it to me all in the same morning.

You bought it off the same BST where my WTB thread was located.

You really expect me (or anyone with a brain) to believe that you bought it for some reason other than to try to and flip to a specific person (me)? You just agreed to buy it (but didn't actually pay for it yet) at 9 AM because you really loved it, and then offered it to me at 11 AM because you didn't love it so much after all? You don't have to lie about it. You didn't commit a crime. It was just scummy.

And after I told you that I knew where (and how recently) you had got the card, you posted it in 3 different threads about how happy you were to add it to your collection. If you didn't feel guilty about anything, why did you do that?

I was happy to own it and I still am. Whether you want to believe that or not has no bearing on the truth of the matter, which is that I made a deal for the E95 Crawford (which I offered to pay Scott for via PayPal Gift, but he couldn't accept), saw that you were looking for one amongst others, and offered it to you. You intimated I offered it to you prior to making the deal which is not accurate and changes the entire dimension of the story. I apologized to Scott at the time and have since, and I still own the card to this day not that it matters.

[Secondbase]

Screwed?......No

I wish you luck in finding another but you did not win a auction. Seller has every right to back out. Good luck.

[oldjudge]

Peter--I'm no lawyer, but didn't Eric have a contract. To cancel the contract wouldn't Eric have to agree? If it was cancelled unilaterally by the seller, and Eric loses money buying a new Mantle, can't he sue for damages?

[Kevin.Shenker]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter--I'm no lawyer, but didn't Eric have a contract. To cancel the contract wouldn't Eric have to agree? If it was cancelled unilaterally by the seller, and Eric loses money buying a new Mantle, can't he sue for damages?

Ha!

Maybe someone should call judge Judy.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter--I'm no lawyer, but didn't Eric have a contract. To cancel the contract wouldn't Eric have to agree? If it was cancelled unilaterally by the seller, and Eric loses money buying a new Mantle, can't he sue for damages?

Pretty much it is a contract at that point both parties agreed on it and I believe that you're right. Both parties would have to agree to make the contract VOID.

I'm not a lawyer but I believe that your statement is correct.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter--I'm no lawyer, but didn't Eric have a contract. To cancel the contract wouldn't Eric have to agree? If it was cancelled unilaterally by the seller, and Eric loses money buying a new Mantle, can't he sue for damages?

From the legal standpoint, there was most certainly a binding contract which is enforceable, and either money damages or specific performance (compelling a transfer of the Mantle at issue to the buyer) is in order. Specific performance may depend upon whether or not this particular card is considered unique. In a more practical context, almost anything that goes into litigation will ultimately entail at least 12-20 hours of legal time, at approximately $200/hr. or so as the attorney's fee. Unless you can go through small claims court, the lawyer is the only real winner.

Also from a more practical standpoint, the failure of the seller to fulfill his promise to sell upon completion of the transfer of the funds will, as a virtual certainty, reflect so poorly upon him that those who are aware of this failure will refrain from engaging in any transactions with him.

Conclusion: It's time to deliver the card, Dan, with no more BS.

Most sincerely,

Larry

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

You agreed to purchase the card and then offered to sell it to me all in the same morning.

You bought it off the same BST where my WTB thread was located.

You really expect me (or anyone with a brain) to believe that you bought it for some reason other than to try to and flip to a specific person (me)? You just agreed to buy it (but didn't actually pay for it yet) at 9 AM because you really loved it, and then offered it to me at 11 AM because you didn't love it so much after all? You don't have to lie about it. You didn't commit a crime. It was just scummy.

And after I told you that I knew where (and how recently) you had got the card, you posted it in 3 different threads about how happy you were to add it to your collection. If you didn't feel guilty about anything, why did you do that?

i think the first deal with the 1951 mantle is a black mark on gobucsmagic..but i dont see anything wrong about what he did with the flip with you...afterall, he already was locked in to pay for the card and he couldnt of been 100% sure you would of wanted the same card....could of still been a price issue or centering issue with the card....was no sure thing he would of been able to sell to you...

[cozmokramer]

This would be no big deal if we were talking about a $50 card.

But when someone sells you a 1951 bowman Mantle and asks for a PayPal FF payment over $3k, they should know they are ready to sell and not in a possible position that may cause them to back out.

[cozmokramer]

If anyone has a PSA 3 or 4 1951 bowman Mantle they are looking to sell, please PM me a picture and a price. I have a hole in my collection now that needs filling.

[Joshchisox08]

Sorry Eric. That's a lot of money to be playing around with there. And must be a really nice and difficult card to get.

I'll have to remember that username.

[cozmokramer]

Everyone is making too much out of this. I got screwed and it is what it is.

Long story short, if I wasn't getting this Mantle, I wouldn't have sold mine. I'm certainly not going to ask the buyer to sell it back to me, that's bad business and not how I operate.

I will continue to look for another Mantle now to fill a void in my collection. This is part of my PSA set.

My only reason behind posting this thread was to bring caution to any others that may be presented with an opportunity to do business with this same seller - you should at least be aware of this before deciding to engage in a transaction.

[cozmokramer]

Quite a few of you have contacted me claiming to have had similar problems with this same seller.

We really need an automated feedback system where buyers leave positive and negative feedback on transactions. Once someone gets 3 strikes or negatives, they are banned from selling.

Based upon all your emails, the seller here would have been banned long ago!

How is it that so many people continue to have problems with one seller but yet as a community we do nothing about it?

[xplainer]

I'm a lightweight on this website, but this has nothing to do with how long you've been on here.

I don't know the OP or seller in this case, but when the agreed amount of money exchanges hands, that should be it. There is no other way to look at it. Not morally or logically.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

Quite a few of you have contacted me claiming to have had similar problems with this same seller.

We really need an automated feedback system where buyers leave positive and negative feedback on transactions. Once someone gets 3 strikes or negatives, they are banned from selling.

Based upon all your emails, the seller here would have been banned long ago!

How is it that so many people continue to have problems with one seller but yet as a community we do nothing about it?

I'd really appreciate if people would post this type of thing publicly. We need to police the BST ourselves and it doesn't do a lot of good to just pass along bad experiences via PM. We should be alerting others so that they aren't the next person victimized, inconvenienced, or what have you.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

I'd really appreciate if people would post this type of thing publicly. We need to police the BST ourselves and it doesn't do a lot of good to just pass along bad experiences via PM. We should be alerting others so that they aren't the next person victimized, inconvenienced, or what have you.

In a perfect world this wouldn't be necessary, but... I would have no problem with what you propose, Luke.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

Quite a few of you have contacted me claiming to have had similar problems with this same seller.

We really need an automated feedback system where buyers leave positive and negative feedback on transactions. Once someone gets 3 strikes or negatives, they are banned from selling.

Based upon all your emails, the seller here would have been banned long ago!

How is it that so many people continue to have problems with one seller but yet as a community we do nothing about it?

Those people are contacting the wrong person.

[frankbmd]

I'm currently in Banning, but I am not the right person.

[cozmokramer]

Thanks everyone for the comments and support. I didn't think the thread would go this wild, I really didn't.

All I wanted to do is ALERT other collectors about this seller so the same thing doesn't happen to them.

Wow was I surprised to find out he already did it to many of you!

[cozmokramer]

Not the best card, but fills the hole for now until I can upgrade... The price was right too!

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1443828067.392130.jpg

[cozmokramer]

And it's centered well!

[4815162342]

You were seriously jonesin' for a '51 Mantle!

[cozmokramer]

Awesome update as if 10/11... Yeah!

My friend ran into an unforeseen circumstance and he presented my with the opportunity to be able to buy back my PSA 2mc Mantle card from him.

So I'm back to where I was before all this hoopla started.

Now holding a PSA 1 and PSA 2mc Mantle as a result of all this, it's time to start all over and figure out how to turn those two into an upgrade.... Probably a PSA 4 is what I'll look for!