Why are these guys still around?

[Throttlesteer]

I apologize for yet another thread about this scandal. But as I read the names of the folks involved, many of them seemed familiar from my past life on Net54. I went and did a little digging and these same bad actors are the ones that were discussed back in the early 2000s. If high-profile card doctoring has been going on with the same well-known group of people, why hasn't anything been done in nearly 20 years?

i realize it's hard to prove, but I can't believe they've managed to fly under the criminal justice radar for so long. No wonder they've become so bold and pervasive. It's beyond disgusting.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

I apologize for yet another thread about this scandal. But as I read the names of the folks involved, many of them seemed familiar from my past life on Net54. I went and did a little digging and these same bad actors are the ones that were discussed back in the early 2000s. If high-profile card doctoring has been going on with the same well-known group of people, why hasn't anything been done in nearly 20 years?

i realize it's hard to prove, but I can't believe they've managed to fly under the criminal justice radar for so long. No wonder they've become so bold and pervasive. It's beyond disgusting.

Dealers and auction houses either have been complicit or the honest ones, in large part, have just done nothing and enjoyed the price umbrella. The people protesting have mostly been shouted down. Law enforcement has, for reasons of its own, not viewed it as a priority at least in the past. It's the perfect storm.

[Snapolit1]

Law enforcement hasn't viewed it as a priority because there is no crime in breaking a card out of a case, rubbing bleach on it, tinkering with the edges, and maybe touching up a little color and then sending it on to PSA having the industry leading verifying company bless it and return it to you with a new grade, and you make no warranty about the grading or anything else in selling it to someone else.

Yes, I know we've had this discussion many times. . . . .

Sleazy practices don't always equate with illegal behavior.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Law enforcement hasn't viewed it as a priority because there is no crime in breaking a card out of a case, rubbing bleach on it, tinkering with the edges, and maybe touching up a little color and then sending it on to PSA having the industry leading verifying company bless it and return it to you with a new grade, and you make no warranty about the grading or anything else in selling it to someone else.

Yes, I know we've had this discussion many times. . . . .

Sleazy practices don't always equate with illegal behavior.

No, but fraud is illegal. I'm not getting dragged into this again. Read the Mastro indictment. Read the mail and wire fraud statutes and the textbook definitions of fraud including fraudulent concealment.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No, but fraud is illegal. I'm not getting dragged into this again. Read the Mastro indictment. Read the mail and wire fraud statutes and the textbook definitions of fraud including fraudulent concealment.

I feel like we've had this conversation before and that you & I explained it pretty clearly previously. But my memory isn't so good sometimes. Maybe I just daydreamed that.

[Johnny630]

These guys are still around for a few of reason...
A. There is money to be made...scamming so they’re gonna try, it’s a thrill for them to one up you and make money.
B. TPG are not catching their crap....
C. No Consequences for their actions...
And worse but hell there is my very small nuts and bolts meat and potatoes simple reasons assessment of why they’re still around.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I feel like we've had this conversation before and that you & I explained it pretty clearly previously. But my memory isn't so good sometimes. Maybe I just daydreamed that.

Yeah it's frustrating that there is still resistance to this very basic and obvious point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Law enforcement hasn't viewed it as a priority because there is no crime in breaking a card out of a case, rubbing bleach on it, tinkering with the edges, and maybe touching up a little color and then sending it on to PSA having the industry leading verifying company bless it and return it to you with a new grade, and you make no warranty about the grading or anything else in selling it to someone else.

Yes, I know we've had this discussion many times. . . . .

Sleazy practices don't always equate with illegal behavior.

Have you talked to law enforcement about this? I have. Are you sure you want to be on record as saying what they think?

[Republicaninmass]

What about fencing, for lack of a better term, altered cards? Knowingly or unknowingly. All these guys giving Brent a pass . Poor guy was targeted since he got the highest prices

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

What about fencing, for lack of a better term, altered cards? Knowingly or unknowingly. All these guys giving Brent a pass . Poor guy was targeted since he got the highest prices

Ted, it's just not worth arguing with some people. Have you seen actual proof with your own eyes the world is round? I haven't.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Have you talked to law enforcement about this? I have. Are you sure you want to be on record as saying what they think?

Sure I'll go on record with my opinions about how the government may or may not view a certain situation legally. In fact I stand up in court and do it all the time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Sure I'll go on record with my opinions about how the government may or may not view a certain situation legally. In fact I stand up in court and do it all the time.

So now you're admitting you're just speculating. That will hold up real well against my actual conversation with the agent in charge of all this. Not to mention what the law actually is on this subject. Why it would come as a surprise to anyone, especially a lawyer, that defrauding people out of millions of dollars would be criminal, is beyond me at this point.