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#1
02-06-2010, 11:17 AM
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Send lawyers, guns and money
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#2
02-06-2010, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not...
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#5
02-06-2010, 11:49 AM
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Looks like this is not going to go away quietly. So we learned that a Chicago Grand Jury is now looking into the allegations and this is the first I've heard of a rebacked T200...I'd like to hear more about that.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
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#6
02-06-2010, 11:57 AM
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Forman
I would like to learn more about Forman's cards including how many were and are in SGC holders and what grades they rec'd and when... It does not seem right that the owner of one of the hobby’s major grading firms is actively involved in the owning, buying and selling of millions of dollars worth of sports cards - Is Joe Orlando involved in this activity - I think not.
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#8
02-06-2010, 12:07 PM
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Dan do you think it was a T200 premium? Let's say they actually bring this to court and a jury comes up with a guilty verdict. What would happen? Mastro Auctions no longer exists. I suppose that the new company could take a pretty big hit.
Five years ago if you asked who had the biggest and best baseball (sports card) card auction house I'm betting most people would have said Mastro.
__________________
fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something cool you're looking to find a new home for.
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#10
02-06-2010, 12:17 PM
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#11
02-06-2010, 12:20 PM
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I realize the potential for conflicts of interest here, but in the real world, I don't see any other way. Dave Forman isn't actually grading any cards (yours, mine, or his own.) If the actual graders don't know the identity of the owners of the cards they grade, that minimizes the problem. If SGC hasn't set up that type of chinese wall, then there could be problems.
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#12
02-06-2010, 12:17 PM
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Fred, I'm thinking it has to be a premium...the article says "Matte". A T200 would be impossible to reback wouldn't it?
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
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#13
02-06-2010, 12:21 PM
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They allegedly shilled up a set of 1977 baseball cards? Looks like nothing was spared
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#15
02-06-2010, 12:28 PM
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James Beckett (I think that is his name) and PSA's Joe Orlando (and employees) as part of a publicly traded company are not involved in the owning, buying and selling of sports cards as it is a HUGE conflict of interest. I have read statements from both individuals to that effect. I think the shenanigans going on between Forman and Mastro are brutal with both parties involved in questionable behavior.
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#17
02-06-2010, 03:49 PM
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Bill Mastro is the P.T. Barnum of baseball cards. I had always assumed the worse about him and his auction house. Do the latest revelations surprise anyone?
__________________
CASSIDYS SPORTSCARDS - Vintage Baseball Cards 1909 - 1976 https://www.ebluejay.com/store/CASSIDYS_SPORTSCARDS
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#18
02-06-2010, 04:01 PM
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Joe- what are the checks and balances at a grading company? Greg just said what I have been saying for a long time: I'm sure from 9:00-5:00 everything runs professionally at all of the grading services. It's what goes on after everybody's gone home for the night that worries me.
And thanks for missing my auctions.
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#20
02-06-2010, 12:05 PM
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#21
02-06-2010, 01:16 PM
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PSA Conflicts of Interest
Easy short read - Conflicts of Interest are prohibited for all employees - these are representations made to the public as Collectors Universe is a publicly traded corporation. I believe that any conflict of interest is extremely serious and therefore not very likely.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....p=irol-corpgov Go to Code of Conduct and then See Page 11 Last edited by pwilk17; 02-06-2010 at 01:17 PM.
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#22
02-06-2010, 01:22 PM
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Joe- PSA employees may own cards but they shouldn't. The potential for conflict of interest is enormous. And maybe it is time for the FBI to take a good look at some of these graders. Given how much money is at stake based on a bump of a half grade, I can only imagine what is going on behind the scenes. If I were a betting man I would say much of what transpires after hours behind closed doors would be nothing short of shocking.
Last edited by barrysloate; 02-06-2010 at 01:31 PM.
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#24
02-06-2010, 03:12 PM
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Barry - I wasn't really arguing whether employee's owning cards was a conflict of interest or not. I just found it fascinating that anyone could state, as if fact, that PSA employees are not involved in owning cards. "James Beckett (I think that is his name) and PSA's Joe Orlando (and employees) as part of a publicly traded company are not involved in the owning, buying and selling of sports cards as it is a HUGE conflict of interest."
__________________
Joe D.
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#25
02-06-2010, 03:13 PM
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I understand Joe. Nobody really knows what is going on over there.
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#26
02-06-2010, 01:29 PM
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__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
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#27
02-06-2010, 01:47 PM
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Doubt this situation will have a favorable outcome for Legendary, SGC or Dave by the time it is all over. There is a reason that Mastro continued to loan money to Dave well after he proved he was not able or not willing to pay it back. It would be nice to have a more information on that, at the very least.
As far as what Barry said it is time for the FBI to take a closer look at these grading companies. It is obvious that not all cards are held to the same standards. Some submitters have advantages or opportunities which are not available to the general public. It is not always by accident or inexperience that we see so many altered or over graded cards in holders.
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#28
02-06-2010, 01:54 PM
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To continue my point, if it is discovered that employees of an auction house are bidding in their company's auctions, everyone on the board is up an arms and crying foul.
So why is it any different if graders are caught buying and selling baseball cards? As far as I'm concerned, it is potentially a much worse offense. An auction employee bidding with his own company may simply wish to add a piece to his collection. Not the worst transgression in the world. But if a grader can assign a grade to his own cards, and then sell them himself or have somebody else do it, the potential for fraud is off the charts. As far as I'm concerned, if I owned a grading company and I caught one of my graders selling cards, I would fire him on the spot.
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#30
02-06-2010, 04:12 PM
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I do not mind if any auction house owns material in one of its own auctions as long as it is disclosed prior to bidding commencing and there is absolutely no shill bidding period. The auction house can take its chances like any other consignor (obviously they may promote their own items more than others through catalog placement etc.). I absolutely do not believe any owner/officer/director and employee of any card grading company should be allowed to purchase, have cards graded or sold from their first day of employment until their last - period!
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#31
02-06-2010, 04:20 PM
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What if the auction house promises not to shill bid -- and then does so anyway? What if the auction house bids on their own material -- with improper knowledge of what other bidders are doing? And yes, let's have contracts signed, many carefully worded contracts. And who will enforce them -- God?
__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets
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#32
02-06-2010, 04:42 PM
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What do you Recommend Calvindog?
Calvindog - What do you think of the owner of SGC buying (and not paying entirely for) and selling millions of dollars worth of cards in shill bid auctions? What do you think of auction houses that are unethical? What do you think should be done? Do you think all auction houses management and employees and the card grading companies management and employees are all crooked? I do not believe so. Calvindog - if you think my post is comical - do you think everything is OK the way it is? What do you recommend to help with a solution? I think Ethical corporate polices and standards like PSA’s should be mandatory in all of these companies. PSA’s section regarding conflicts of interest is excellent and it is a good start. Hopefully the companies we deal with including PSA have honest principals who will hold themselves and their employees to these standards for the betterment of the hobby community. If you are laughing at all of this – what do you recommend Clavindog?
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#33
02-06-2010, 05:01 PM
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Some of the business practices in this hobby are just like any other industry where there are lots of dollars involved. Most of the opportunities for individuals looking to make a profit are driven by building relationships with influential people. This can be done with dealers, customers or grading companies. When dishonest people are exposed to these opportunities they take advantage of them until found out about such as what just happened in this article.
Again this is not unlike what goes on in any industry. I still believe that without the grading companies there would be much less of a market for baseball cards and there would be very few opportunities for sales to be made via the internet. As an example of this compare ungraded prices for items on E-Bay versus items authenticated and graded by SGC or PSA. Usually there is no comparison between the two. I would have to say that anyone purchasing ungraded high dollar items via the internet is running a great chance of being disappointed when they receive their item.
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#34
02-06-2010, 06:27 PM
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Hybrid Mode
