National location in 2024 and future

[parkplace33]

When will the location for the National in 2024 be announced? And future locations as well?

[Johnny630]

I think the dealers sent their votes in. From what I recall overhearing it was three choices. Chicago across the board. Chicago, Cleveland Chicago. And can't remember what I heard the third option was.

[walker066]

I think the third option was Cleveland/AC. I’m guessing that’s going to be a no lol

[Brian Van Horn]

It has been since 2012 the National was in Baltimore. It has rotated in the three cities mentioned since then. Still, with the Cleveland building closed at the airport and the Ferris Wheel removed, the rotation is simply Atlantic City one year and Chicago another. Man, that puts miles on the car.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

It has been since 2012 the National was in Baltimore. It has rotated in the three cities mentioned since then. Still, with the Cleveland building closed at the airport and the Ferris Wheel removed, the rotation is simply Atlantic City one year and Chicago another. Man, that puts miles on the car.

From what I've read -- the Convention Center downtown is where the NSCC will be held in Cleveland but if the I/X Center is needed, it is available

https://clevelandmagazine.com/in-the...center-is-back

Regards
Rich

[rand1com]

If it goes to Cleveland, it will be at the IX Center. The downtown center is not close to being large enough and they will not eliminate 1/3 of the dealer booths to go there.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

It has been since 2012 the National was in Baltimore. It has rotated in the three cities mentioned since then. Still, with the Cleveland building closed at the airport and the Ferris Wheel removed, the rotation is simply Atlantic City one year and Chicago another. Man, that puts miles on the car.

I would love to see the National return to Baltimore (only an hour away). At the time, I heard the problem with Baltimore was the venue could not be booked years out, which is a problem when rotating sites. I have attended the show in Cleveland as well. The IX center is huge and tons of parking. DC would be an interesting location. Parking would be a nightmare, especially during the week. Metro access helps alleviate the parking situation.

[Snapolit1]

Chicago - amazingly convenient. Easy to fly to. Location of hotels to center is awesome. Great American city with a lot to do.

Atlantic City - close driving distance for a large section of the population of the country, so much of hobby is actually based on NJ, not a city to spend a lot of time walking about but many people enjoy the selection of casinos and other night life.

Cleveland - honestly not much of a tourist destination and not as easy to travel to as chicago. No offense to Cleveland, been there a few times and don’t need to go back.

Vegas - if it worked out sure. Same with Orlando or one of the California large cities. Places you’d want to go to for a vacation.

I disagree that people will go anywhere. I travel for leisure maybe 2 x a year. I’m not taking a trip to East Jabib because their is a card show there. Has to be other things pulling me there.

[theshowandme]

Bring it to DC

[Snapolit1]

Wonder if they released attendance for this year’s show. I know from reading the board carefully that no one was going to AC because of the crime and decay. Very Curious to see how bad of a disaster it actually was.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by snapolit1

wonder if they released attendance for this year’s show. I know from reading the board carefully that no one was going to ac because of the crime and decay. Very curious to see how bad of a disaster it actually was.

lol

[Snapolit1]

If I ran a business and the leading industry group said we are going to move our annual marquis event from the NJ/NY/Philly area to Cleveland I would be over the moon.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If I ran a business and the leading industry group said we are going to move our annual marquis event from the NJ/NY/Philly area to Cleveland I would be over the moon.

Trying to get that far away?
Those videos are great.
.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Bring it to DC

+1,000! Is the D.C. convention center not big enough, is that the problem? And what about Philly or Baltimore for East Coast venues, why don't they get consideration? What's the big deal about Cleveland, anyway? It's not really central for West Coast or Southern folks, and if that's the main criterion, why not just have it in Chicago or some other midwest location every year and leave it at that? As for A.C., I'm waiting for the crime reports: all the muggings, street robberies, carjackings, etc. Apparently, the National was very well attended, so the accompanying crime and carnage as predicted must have been horrendous, right?

[1954 topps]

It doesn’t matter where the show is. People with money will travel anywhere. As the popularity of the hobby has exploded, the scale of the national should as well. And the IX Center is the best location on the current schedule to continue expanding the number of tables. How sweet would a 2,000-3,000 table show be?!

Cleveland could easily support expansion and in a decent location to travel into for the majority of attendees. They could add corporate and dealer tables simultaneously. The hobby is strong, now is the time to test the limits of possibilities.

I’d also suggest an early admission daily ticket option for more than a 1/2 hour early admission as is the current norm. Charge $50 per day.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by 1954 topps

It doesn’t matter where the show is. People with money will travel anywhere. As the popularity of the hobby has exploded, the scale of the national should as well. And the IX Center is the best location on the current schedule to continue expanding the number of tables. How sweet would a 2,000-3,000 table show be?! Cleveland could easily support expansion and in a decent location to travel into for the majority of attendees. They could add corporate and dealer tables simultaneously. The hobby is strong, now is the time to test the limits of possibilities. I’d also suggest an early admission daily ticket option for more than a 1/2 hour early admission as is the current norm. Charge $50 per day.

Nothing against Cleveland, I did several Nationals there and except for the union rules (nothing against unions, either, but those were ridiculous), I liked it as a venue. Didn't realize it was so big and suitable for expansion of the show, but I agree that would be a good reason to go for that and maybe just stick there, including the revival of the Ferris Wheel! I don't quite agree about location not being important, some parts of the country are better than others for our purposes, IMO.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

+1,000! Is the D.C. convention center not big enough, is that the problem? And what about Philly or Baltimore for East Coast venues, why don't they get consideration? What's the big deal about Cleveland, anyway? It's not really central for West Coast or Southern folks, and if that's the main criterion, why not just have it in Chicago or some other midwest location every year and leave it at that? As for A.C., I'm waiting for the crime reports: all the muggings, street robberies, carjackings, etc. Apparently, the National was very well attended, so the accompanying crime and carnage as predicted must have been horrendous, right?

For reference AC as I mentioned above is 490k sqft.

DC (Walter Washington Convention center) - Hall ABC looks to be 473k sqft - so a little small but maybe possible especially if you would be willing to separate into the 2nd floor hall as well. But I'm not sure breaking the show into multiple areas would be a good thing.

Philly would work based on size (main hall is 528k sqft + the ballroom if you wanted to separate for more space).

Baltimore - IMO the show has now unfortunately outgrown the convention center. The main hall is only 300k sqft.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

For reference AC as I mentioned above is 490k sqft. DC (Walter Washington Convention center) - Hall ABC looks to be 473k sqft - so a little small but maybe possible especially if you would be willing to separate into the 2nd floor hall as well. But I'm not sure breaking the show into multiple areas would be a good thing. Philly would work based on size (main hall is 528k sqft + the ballroom if you wanted to separate for more space). Baltimore - IMO the show has now unfortunately outgrown the convention center. The main hall is only 300k sqft.

Great info. Thanks!

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Bring it to DC

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

+1,000! Is the D.C. convention center not big enough, is that the problem? And what about Philly or Baltimore for East Coast venues, why don't they get consideration? What's the big deal about Cleveland, anyway? It's not really central for West Coast or Southern folks, and if that's the main criterion, why not just have it in Chicago or some other midwest location every year and leave it at that? As for A.C., I'm waiting for the crime reports: all the muggings, street robberies, carjackings, etc. Apparently, the National was very well attended, so the accompanying crime and carnage as predicted must have been horrendous, right?

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

For reference AC as I mentioned above is 490k sqft.

DC (Walter Washington Convention center) - Hall ABC looks to be 473k sqft - so a little small but maybe possible especially if you would be willing to separate into the 2nd floor hall as well. But I'm not sure breaking the show into multiple areas would be a good thing.

Philly would work based on size (main hall is 528k sqft + the ballroom if you wanted to separate for more space).

Baltimore - IMO the show has now unfortunately outgrown the convention center. The main hall is only 300k sqft.

DC has a great layout. Push the breakers/corporate areas to different halls. Washington, D.C. has over 200,000 more sq feet of exhibition space in the building than Atlantic City. The building is bigger than the San Diego Convention Center which hosts Comic-Con for example... it could definitely host the national.

[Exhibitman]

Given the growth of the hobby maybe not a bad idea to add more space. I'd also argue for modifying the floor plans for the show:

1. Put the autographs, breaker area and the card grading services in a separate room. Those activities are sufficiently differentiated from the basic buying and selling of cards and memorabilia that there is no real loss to having them off the main floor.

2. I'd also put the true corporate booths (the ones that don't actually sell stuff) at one end of the main floor away from the dealer tables. It is a PITA to circle around or traverse the no-man's-land of the corporate booths twenty times a day moving between dealer table rows.

3. I would also segregate the auction houses from the dealer tables. Candidly, I don't care what trinkets the AHs have on display; that's maybe something I briefly look at while having a snack.

I'd love to see 700-1000 dealer tables concentrated into one area.

I'd also like to see more tables and chairs available besides by the concessions. The IX Center certainly could accommodate a series of sitting areas on the show floor. Might be nice for visiting and trading.

ETA: my last few shows in Cleveland have been really good, and I have come around to not minding the IX Center, especially if they've gotten rid of that f***ing annoying Ferris wheel dead zone in the middle of the room. The airport is the size of a small regional airport here in LA, so easy to get around (I still get lost in O'Hare every time) and I've found some good areas to go to eat. Having to get a car is a drag, but it isn't a deal-breaker for me.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

For reference AC as I mentioned above is 490k sqft.

DC (Walter Washington Convention center) - Hall ABC looks to be 473k sqft - so a little small but maybe possible especially if you would be willing to separate into the 2nd floor hall as well. But I'm not sure breaking the show into multiple areas would be a good thing.

Philly would work based on size (main hall is 528k sqft + the ballroom if you wanted to separate for more space).

Baltimore - IMO the show has now unfortunately outgrown the convention center. The main hall is only 300k sqft.

The Washington Convention Center is not a great place for the show. I have gone there for the auto show, World Stamp Expo, Health and fitness expo and small events. The main hall is only about 160' x 90', or 155' x 60'. I used their virtual floor plan program with measuring tool and got several different measurements. The Auto Show uses multiple floors. Even though the main hall is a nice rectangle, it would not seem practical. I believe the main hall is also in the basement.

I have walked in the area quite a bit when I go to the D.C. Archives for research. The convention center takes up about 3 old city blocks. Directly to the north is mainly residential rowhouses and Howard University. To the west is mostly rowhouses, small condos. To the east is low income housing and Dunbar High School. To the south across the intersection of two major avenues (New York and Massachusetts) is Chinatown and Capital One Arena. There is not enough parking close to the building with no parking structures. There is a parking area in the building, but that may just be for exhibitors and deliveries. Very few places to eat - Subway and some small restaurants. As for hotels; there is one in the next block - Marriott Marquis. After that all of the larger hotels are 5-8 blocks away - Grand Hyatt, Hilton Garden Inn, Sofitel, Washington Marriott, Washington Hyatt.

The only positive is the Mt. Vernon/Convention Center/7th Street Metro stop is directly below the building. The exit/entrance to the subway station is under part of the building so you come up the escalator and walk 30 feet into the building. One of the subway lines that stops here goes to Crystal City in Arlington, future home of Amazon HQ2, and there are 13 hotels there.

[Lobo Aullando]

The big hall(s) down below street level is/are 473k sqft. The big hall up the giant escalators is 230k sqft. It might be acceptable to stick the graders and signers upstairs, and then have the dealers and mandatory corporate booths downstairs. They could even put some corporate stuff on the mezzanine between the street level and the lower halls; everybody will have to walk by it.

There is also the matter of some onerous union rules. You can take it in yourself, but no carts.

Originally Posted by Michael B

The Washington Convention Center is not a great place for the show. I have gone there for the auto show, World Stamp Expo, Health and fitness expo and small events. The main hall is only about 160' x 90', or 155' x 60'.

Edit: Looks like DJ already had the measurements. 473k sqft works out to 500' x 940'.