Greg Morris - Trimmed Card? Proper Response?

[STL1944]

I want the group's opinion on something. My apologies if I am "outing" a card.

There is a 1947 Tip Top Warren Spahn card for sale by Greg Morris Cards on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/385399709060

I collect this oddball set and am familiar with this difficult-to-find card. When I first saw the card, I immediately thought, "trimmed." As I compare it to other examples, it looks like it has been trimmed in the past. See the photos below. Specifically, look at the gap between the hat and the top of the card and the creases in the sleeves on the left side of the card.

I contacted Greg Morris with my concerns and suggested they measure the card and potentially list it as trimmed. The response I received was, "This card does not appear to be trimmed. If you win this card and are unhappy with it, we will gladly accept a return."

I could be wrong, and the card not be trimmed, but I believe it is. Does a return policy like this absolve Greg Morris from measuring and potentially listing a card as trimmed if it measures short? My guess is this card will close for over $1k when the bidding is done.

Note: I have had good experiences with Greg Morris Cards in the past and am not trying to disparage them. Per board guidelines, my full name is Jim McKinley.

[Zach Wheat]

They are one of the best and most above board sellers on eBay. They do a high volume of sales and I can understand their reluctance to measure an individual card per your request. Basically they are guaranteeing your satisfaction.

I believe their response was reasonable and I would not have an issue with that response.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

They are one of the best and most above board sellers on eBay. They do a high volume of sales and I can understand their reluctance to measure an individual card per your request. Basically they are guaranteeing your satisfaction.

I believe their response was reasonable and I would not have an issue with that response.

+1 agree

Great experience with them and the fact they are willing to take a return if you are not happy let’s you personally examine it without risk

[G1911]

The card is almost certainly trimmed. The top border hitting his hat looks extremely suspicious.

I am not surprised at all they just stated it’s fine and won’t list it properly.

[bnorth]

All long as a full refund is offered and your name isn't Will all is cool.

[Jobu]

I agree that the missing space on the top looks a bit suspicious. If you look at the folds in the jersey on the left side, there is also a large slice of the image missing there. These lead me to believe that this card is trimmed, or at least was factory cut at a smaller size, as I do not see larger borders on the bottom or right that compensate for the missing image on the left and top.

Originally Posted by G1911

The card is almost certainly trimmed. The top border hitting his hat looks extremely suspicious.

I am not surprised at all they just stated it’s fine and won’t list it properly.

[Flintboy]

My personal viewpoint is that Greg Morris auctions lately have been missing the mark. Cards being over graded, quality control lacking, these things never occurred until recently. Also don’t like his grading scale listing cards as EX to EX MT. Big difference between EX and EX-MT. He’s been at this long enough now to know the difference. Just because you do the right thing on return’s doesn’t give someone a pass for mistakes that shouldn’t be happening.

[JollyElm]

Sorry, that is NOT a good response. Everyone knows Greg Morris is a fine seller, and the parade of people saying so (including myself) will go on unabated, but come on!

We're talking about a very valuable/expensive card, and the OP is looking for a bare minimum assurance that the card is not trimmed, and the reply is to send it back if you're not happy?? You can send anything back for a refund these days. That is a non-answer. What kind of customer service is that? It is obviously way short both ways, which could be natural, of course, but how about at least trying to ease your potential customer's (of a big ticket item, mind you) fears? That's not worth a quick re-look??

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by STL1944

I want the group's opinion on something. My apologies if I am "outing" a card.

There is a 1947 Tip Top Warren Spahn card for sale by Greg Morris Cards on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/385399709060

I collect this oddball set and am familiar with this difficult-to-find card. When I first saw the card, I immediately thought, "trimmed." As I compare it to other examples, it looks like it has been trimmed in the past. See the photos below. Specifically, look at the gap between the hat and the top of the card and the creases in the sleeves on the left side of the card.

I contacted Greg Morris with my concerns and suggested they measure the card and potentially list it as trimmed. The response I received was, "This card does not appear to be trimmed. If you win this card and are unhappy with it, we will gladly accept a return."

I could be wrong, and the card not be trimmed, but I believe it is. Does a return policy like this absolve Greg Morris from measuring and potentially listing a card as trimmed if it measures short? My guess is this card will close for over $1k when the bidding is done.

Note: I have had good experiences with Greg Morris Cards in the past and am not trying to disparage them. Per board guidelines, my full name is Jim McKinley.

First, I think your control card scan is a larger scan than the one Greg has listed. I do not know the issue at all but even if the card is smaller it does not mean it is trimmed. I have bought raw cards that sized perfectly that ended up being trimmed. And lastly, they feel it is not trimmed and are willing to guarantee that. I would say that is a top notch seller.

[Lucas00]

I've personally bought a "NM" card from GM with a pinhole in it and was about to buy another card the other month that had a crease in it marked Ex-Exmint. Which I contacted them about and they confirmed it was indeed a crease. Although the auction went on and nothing was mentioned of it. Which isn't great..

However I've also had a good number of positive experiences with them.

Probably 2/20 experiences ive had a pretty severe condition issue that was missed. Not the best but also a possible statistical anomaly/just bad luck

[Fred]

Jim,

Did you request the card measurements from the seller?

Can you do the same analysis for the back? That may provide an interesting contrast to the front comparison because of the writing on the back may show a significant difference the front doesn't show clearly.

Just my humble opinion - If there's any doubt, especially on a card that's not just a $10 card, then you would think a better examination of the card would be in order by the seller.

One thing for sure is that the seller does a HIGH VOLUME of sales so it's understood that they don't measure every card, but in a case like this, they might take it into consideration and save a buyer (and themselves) the headache of a possible return.

[raulus]

Isn't this an example where the eBay authenticity guarantee will kick in?

Unless I'm off the mark, I think CSG will be taking a look at the card before it goes to the buyer, and if it's trimmed but not labeled as trimmed in the eBay listing, then I suspect that CSG will reject it.

Of course, some will say that they knew it was trimmed, but wanted it anyway, and therefore will blame the eBay AG for getting in the way of their deal.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

Isn't this an example where the eBay authenticity guarantee will kick in?

Unless I'm off the mark, I think CSG will be taking a look at the card before it goes to the buyer, and if it's trimmed but not labeled as trimmed in the eBay listing, then I suspect that CSG will reject it.

Of course, some will say that they knew it was trimmed, but wanted it anyway, and therefore will blame the eBay AG for getting in the way of their deal.

It is, if CSG catches the trimming. The graders have a long history of spotting obvious trimming correctly, so I’m sure they will indeed and all will be well.

[JollyElm]

Before and after, best I could do quickly...

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Before and after, best I could do quickly...

Ugh. There is a lot of that card missing.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[STL1944]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Before and after, best I could do quickly...

I sent a follow-up email with a link to JollyElm's gift above (great job by the way) and an hour later GM took down the listing.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Fred

One thing for sure is that the seller does a HIGH VOLUME of sales so it's understood that they don't measure every card, but in a case like this, they might take it into consideration and save a buyer (and themselves) the headache of a possible return.

Actually that is not true. Unless something has changed, they scan every card once it makes it past a human grader and while being scanned it measures the card with cards measuring too small being rejected and not listed.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Actually that is not true. Unless something has changed, they scan every card once it makes it past a human grader and while being scanned it measures the card with cards measuring too small being rejected and not listed.

Perhaps something has changed and/or there are PSA graders that are moonlighting by working for the seller.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Fred

Perhaps something has changed and/or there are PSA graders that are moonlighting by working for the seller.

No company deserves to have PSA graders working for them.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by STL1944

I contacted Greg Morris with my concerns and suggested they measure the card and potentially list it as trimmed. The response I received was, "This card does not appear to be trimmed. If you win this card and are unhappy with it, we will gladly accept a return."

I don't know anything about these cards, so I don't know if size / photo cropping differences are normal, but I'm not sure how much more a seller can do.

Doug

[G1911]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

I don't know anything about these cards, so I don't know if size / photo cropping differences are normal, but I'm not sure how much more a seller can do.

Doug

They could update the listing to note the card is altered and trimmed.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by G1911

They could update the listing to note the card is altered and trimmed.

Except that their opinion is "this card does not appear to be trimmed".

[G1911]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Except that their opinion is that "this card does not appear to be trimmed".

Their opinion appears to be contrary to the obvious.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by G1911

Their opinion appears to be contrary to the obvious.

I don't disagree, but as I said in an earlier post, I don't know anything about these cards, so I don't know if size / photo cropping differences are normal.

What I do know is that offering a refund to an unhappy buyer seems to me like a good deal for the buyer. If they think there is a chance that the card is not trimmed, they can get it in hand, decide for themselves, and then return if they need to.

If they think there is no chance that the card isn't trimmed, then they shouldn't buy it from him to begin with, but if they do, they can then return it if they decide that they were right all along.

[Lucas00]

There's no way this auto is good right?!?

[rootsearcher60]

I don't know if the volume GM is dealing with is affecting service, but I'm more careful in purchasing from them on ebay. I won multiple lots in one night and waited for an invoice with combined shipping. After a couple of days, I sent a message requesting an updated invoice. No reply from GM. Ebay then begins sending me messages to pay by a certain date, or loose the items. I again send a request to GM. Still no reply. I finally paid on the day ebay said I'd loose items. I overpaid shipping and never received a refund.

Michael Spellmon

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by rootsearcher60

I don't know if the volume GM is dealing with is affecting service, but I'm more careful in purchasing from them on ebay. I won multiple lots in one night and waited for an invoice with combined shipping. After a couple of days, I sent a message requesting an updated invoice. No reply from GM. Ebay then begins sending me messages to pay by a certain date, or loose the items. I again send a request to GM. Still no reply. I finally paid on the day ebay said I'd loose items. I overpaid shipping and never received a refund.

Michael Spellmon

I had a similar experience.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by rootsearcher60

I don't know if the volume GM is dealing with is affecting service, but I'm more careful in purchasing from them on ebay. I won multiple lots in one night and waited for an invoice with combined shipping. After a couple of days, I sent a message requesting an updated invoice. No reply from GM. Ebay then begins sending me messages to pay by a certain date, or loose the items. I again send a request to GM. Still no reply. I finally paid on the day ebay said I'd loose items. I overpaid shipping and never received a refund.

Michael Spellmon

That's wild. I've bought probably at leat a thousand cards from GM over the years, as I'm a set collector and they do a lot of set breaks. I'm my experience they're the best at combining shipping fees of any seller on ebay. Always consistent, always prompt. They are, in my opinion, hands down, the best seller on ebay for cards.

That said, as someone mentioned above, their grading has gotten noticeably worse over the past 3 months or so. They have a hiring req currently posted for new graders on their website. It seems like their best grader/s must have recently gotten poached by one of the TPGs. But they do offer a no questions asked return policy. It doesn't get much better than that as a buyer on ebay.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

While it's understood that grading cards is subjective, being a consistently decent grader of raw cards shouldn't be that difficult, aside from detecting any well-done alterations. Simply assign each card one rung down on the scale from where you feel it truly stands (or half a rung). Be conservative and your customers will love you.

I picked up some cards sight unseen a couple of weeks ago. A few of them were listed as VG, others EX. Imagine my utter shock when I received what I felt were NM (the VG) and MT (the EX)! I wrote to thank the seller for being so incredibly conservative in their grading. Being as careful as that particular seller was is not expected, nor does it make any sense, but it certainly made up for all the overgrading that gets done on sportlots. They were pretty valueless cards, but were needed for a purpose, so a gorgeous card is a gorgeous card regardless!

Not a big fan of "[grade] or Better" in anyone's listings. It's too ambiguous. "Well, it might grade this, or it might grade that!" Just leave the "or Better" out of the title. Informed buyers can interpret things for themselves. "or Better" may only lead to providing false hopes to less educated customers who submit to TPAs and it turns out to be "or Worse". I'm certainly not calling any seller out for overgrading by saying any of the above, nor is any of this directed specifically at Greg Morris Cards.

[nwobhm]

I had the same combined shipping experience a couple weeks ago. Made multiple requests for combined. Ended up paying one to avoid cancellation and noted it in the comments. Never received a reply.

Have another situation happening today…. An invoice that should be good until Saturday that needs payment by today or I lose it. Have sent multiple requests to extend and the response isn’t one that makes me comfortable. Will end up paying it today to avoid the cancellation.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that your bids won't be cancelled with Greg Morris if they go past the claimed eBay deadline. I realize that Greg Morris wants customers to pay up within X number of days, but I believe I once had it confirmed by someone on Morris' end that the sales won't be automatically cancelled by eBay if not paid up when eBay wants you to. There's an "automatic sale cancellation" setting for sellers that can be turned off or on at a seller's discretion, and they do not utilize this feature. Any missives you receive from eBay are just empty threats because eBay wants your money. Unless Greg Morris has changed the way they do things, just ignore eBay's messages until the time that someone on Morris' end can combine your shipping as they constantly advertise.

[spartygw]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

I had the same combined shipping experience a couple weeks ago. Made multiple requests for combined. Ended up paying one to avoid cancellation and noted it in the comments. Never received a reply.



Have another situation happening today…. An invoice that should be good until Saturday that needs payment by today or I lose it. Have sent multiple requests to extend and the response isn’t one that makes me comfortable. Will end up paying it today to avoid the cancellation.

I hope you leave GM at least neutral feedback, possibly negative feedback for the non-response.

The feedback rating is the only avenue we have for effecting change.

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

[Bcwcardz]

Ended because of this thread most likely


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk