T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts.

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1)

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited)

Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 330.....T206 150-only subjects......


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

I acquired a Magie card for my first T206 set many years ago. It was before the grading "craze" started.
I graded this Magie fairly as a Vg-Ex card. It cost me only $600 back then. Eventually I sold it to a good
friend. Then, when I started working on my all-PIEDMONT T206 set, I acquired this Magie......







The Magie card is only found with the PIEDMONT 150 back. American Lithographic caught this error quite early in their press
runs.Typically, their 150 series press runs printed the PIEDMONT backs first (on the pre-printed sheets of the fronts).





So, let's see how many how many Magie cards we can display here ?

Show-n-tell us about your Magie cards.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Rhotchkiss]

Fun thread Ted. Happy New Year.

Here is my Magie (sorry it's sideways, doing this off phone waiting for kid's wrestling practice to end). No magic story to this one- when I got back into collecting about 3 years ago, I went right for the t206s. First I bought a high-grade cy young with glove (my favorite), and this was my second purchase - just bc its iconic. I still think it's undergraded (a PSA 3) but what's in a grade?

[Pat R]

Here ya go Ryan nice Magie.
Ryans Magie.jpg

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Fun thread Ted. Happy New Year.

Here is my Magie (sorry it's sideways, doing this off phone waiting for kid's wrestling practice to end). No magic story to this one- when I got back into collecting about 3 years ago, I went right for the t206s. First I bought a high-grade cy young with glove (my favorite), and this was my second purchase - just bc its iconic. I still think it's undergraded (a PSA 3) but what's in a grade?

It is a nice Magie, but I have to add that the Cy Young glove card is one of my least favorites. But to each his own.

Here's my Magie, purchased in 2003, about a year after I began the set:

scan0001.jpg

[Rhotchkiss]

Thanks Pat, for straightening me out. Sean, I think the cy young with glove is one of the ugliest cards around - I think he looks like a bloated bum with a big round head. And, I think that's I why I love it so much (that and it was the first big t206 I owned as a kid).

[rats60]

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Thanks Pat, for straightening me out. Sean, I think the cy young with glove is one of the ugliest cards around - I think he looks like a bloated bum with a big round head. And, I think that's I why I love it so much (that and it was the first big t206 I owned as a kid).

Hey Ted, not to derail your thread, but maybe in the future we could all post our five favorite T206 cards.

[njdunkin1]

Yowzas. Beautiful cards and Magies, gentlemen!


What's the going rate for an entry level one nowadays? 5k?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

Yowzas. Beautiful cards and Magies, gentlemen!


What's the going rate for an entry level one nowadays? 5k?

I think that it's about $7-8K for a decent PSA 1.

[tennisguy]

Originally Posted by Sean

I think that it's about $7-8K for a decent PSA 1.

I agree with Sean. 6K lower conditioned Magie/8K better conditioned SGC 10-PSA 1. I love the Magie error, such an iconic card! I think without a doubt this card will continue to appreciate in value regardless of condition.

[Roulette44]

296 Magee Magie PSA 2.0 P150-25 Front.jpg

[tedzan]

Some nice MAGIE's, guys. Thanks for posting them here.

Here's another Sherry Magee error card of a different type for you....this time it's a picture problem (uncorrected).

The 1910 NADJA Caramels (E104) card of Bris Lord actually portrays Magee.




TED Z
.

[Rhotchkiss]

Ted, interesting that His hair part is on the other side from the t206 pic.

[tedzan]

Hey Ryan

Which Magee image is correct ?

Is the 1910 NADJA the reverse of the T206 image....or vice-versa ? ?


.


TED Z
.

[Rhotchkiss]

I think they both are correct. Each uniform had a different hair style to fit the clothes. I definately like the A uniform better than the P, so if I had to choose, I take the 1910 hairdo

[tedzan]

I will start this show with my 6 sentimental favorites (displayed in order of when I acquired them)......


My first T206, which I acquired at the Willow Grove Show in 1981.







FYI....the majority of the Piedmont 150 green Cobb's are offset (top-to-bottom) as this card is.

.










.





This McGraw / UZIT card is unique (if anyone else on this forum knows of another one, please respond).






.


TED Z
.

[iowadoc77]

Yes, please, if someone else knows of another Uzit McGraw, please sell it to me! I would really appreciate it. Great stuff Ted.

[tedzan]

Hi Eric

I'm regularly searching for another McGraw with a UZIT back. If I find one before you do, I will immediately contact you.


TED Z
.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Eric

I'm regularly searching for another McGraw with a UZIT back. If I find one before you do, I will immediately contact you.


TED Z
.

Much appreciated Ted. And a spare Plank would be great as well!

[tedzan]

I must add my Walter Johnson to this mix. This picture is absolutely the best looking image in the entire T206 set.
It's certainly my most favorite T206 card.






Hey guys......how's about posting some of your favorite T206's here.


TED Z
.

[Sean]

Ted, here is my favorite card from the entire set. It's a good representation of Cobb, and I like the colors:

scan0001.jpg

[Sean]

A couple of other favorites are of course the Walter Johnson portrait, the nicest portrait in the set, and the Matty Black Cap. The Mathewson looks so well done that it could almost pass for a photograph.


scan0008.jpg

scan0001.jpg

[Sean]

My favorite front/back combo is the Merkle Brown Lenox. It's a 1 of 1, and I mean to keep it until I die.


scan0029.jpg

scan0030.jpg

[Sean]

And finally there's Mitchell:

scan0002.jpg


This one needs an explanation. I began collecting cards in 1965, when I was eight. Of that first set, my favorite card was Yastrzemski. I love the pose. Of course I know now that it was staged, but at the time I really thought that they had photographed him in the act of catching a fly ball.

The Mitchell card reminds me so much of my first favorite card that it has become a favorite as well:

[Sean]

Here's the two cards for comparison:


scan0048.jpg

[tedzan]

Hey Sean

Some nice cards, thanks for posting them.



OK, here's another unique T206 card, which until recently was in my collection. Now, it is in David Hall's master set.





TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Only these five T-brands were printed on the backs of the 150-only T206's

American Lithographic initially printed 12 subjects which were the first T206's (issued circa Spring 1909). Depicted here are these 12 guys......







.





TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *



Only these five T-brands were printed on the backs of the 150-only T206's


Contrary to the conventional thinking, it's my opinion that Mike Powers should not be considered a 150-only T206 subject. American Lithographic actually
printed Powers battery mate, Eddie Plank, with this 1st series of 12 cards. This we know for certain, since a partial sheet of Piedmont 150 cards were dis-
covered in Eastern Long Island (NY) in the mid 1980's.
Included on this sheet were Eddie Plank and Honus Wagner (subsequently referred to as the Gretzky Wagner). For more info on this, check-out this 2009 thread....http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=111871

Since the 1970's, several theory's (such as the "broken printing plates" myth, etc.) have been proposed to explain the "short-printing" of the Plank card.
Well, my take on this mystery is very simple....having read Connie Mack's ** response to a Philadelphia sports writer (circa 1910) regarding Plank........

"The secret of Plank's pitching is no secret at all. It is a good strong arm, a powerful constitution to back it, and neither drinks, smokes,
chews tobacco, nor swears...."

My guess is Eddie Plank informed the American Tobacco Co. (ATC) that he did not want his image portrayed on Tobacco cards. And, being the low-keyed
guy that he was, Plank did not "hype-up" his anti-tobacco stance (as Wagner did). Most likely, a brief "cease and desist" order was issued to ATC.





Furthermore, why ATC continued issuing the Plank card with a SWEET CAPORAL 350, Factory #30 back for a short period of time is anyone's guess. ?
I have some thoughts regarding this; however, I'm curious what your's may be ? ?

The majority of T206 Plank cards in circulation are the SWEET CAPORAL 350, Factory #30 versions. And, it is interesting to note that the colors of the
majority of these particular Plank cards are quite pale in comparison with the rich-looking colors of the PIEDMONT 150 or SWEET CAPORAL 150 cards.


Footnote **
"Connie Mack" (Biography), by Norman Macht


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *



Only these five T-brands were printed on the backs of the 150-only T206's


Mike Powers was the preferred battery mate of Eddie Plank. Unfortunately, on Opening Day of Shibe Park (April 12 1909) in Philadelphia, Mike Powers was
injured on the field. In the hospital, the doctors discovered he had serious intestinal system problems. Mike passed away 2 weeks later (re....Net54 thread
posted 2008).





My theory regarding the Mike Powers card is....he was subsequently printed in press runs which included 33 other subjects. This appears evident, as the
backs of these 34 subjects were also overprinted with the SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory #649 stamp. My point here is that the Powers card was actually
printed with this group of 34 subjects. Of which, 33 of them became 150/350 series cards. The Powers card was discontinued due to his untimely death;
therefore, he was not printed with any 350 series backs. As he would have been printed, had he continued in his BB career.

TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts.

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1)

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited)

Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Only these five T-brands were printed on the backs of the 150-only T206's


Presented here is a theory of which I presented some years ago, that I expect will stir up some controversy on this forum.

When American Lithographic was forced to remove the Wagner image on their 150-only series sheet, they replaced him with the Schulte (front view) image.

The criticism that I expect of my theory, is that this Schulte is part of the Elite 11 group. Well, I say do not be so quick to dismiss my proposition. For it has
not been proven that one lonely Schulte card with a PIEDMONT 350 back is not just a mis-printed error. Cards of the Elite 11 group are defined by having a
PIEDMONT 350 back and an EPDG back.

Therefore, until I see this Schulte card with an EPDG back, which would prove it belongs to the Elite 11 group, I consider this card a 150-only series subject.

Feel free to discuss this issue.



> > > > > >




TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Only these five T-brands were printed on the backs of the 150-only T206's


There is another card in this 150-only series that interests me, besides the Plank and Wagner cards. Check-out the Al Burch image.

It's my guess that the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island are pictured in the distant background.

The picture of Burch appears to have been taken at the old Brooklyn Heights field when he played for Brooklyn. The Statue of Liberty is can be seen from this venue.

Anyone here would like to venture another guess as to what buildings are in this card's background ? ................................v




TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Name a T206 guy who pitched a No-Hitter in his 1st Major League start ?


First one here who posts the correct answer to this Trivia quiz is rewarded with a T206 card.


TED Z
.

[HawkFan70]

Ted-

Is it Ted Breitenstein?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Phillippe threw one his first year, not sure if it was his first start

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by HawkFan70

Ted-

Is it Ted Breitenstein?

Congratulations Chris....you are the Trivia King.

Ted Breitenstein's 1st Major League start was on October 4, 1891. He faced the minimum number of 27 batters pitching a no-hitter
for the St. Louis Browns (his hometown team). He allowed just one Walk, which was erased by a double play. During Ted's 20-year
career (Major and Minor Leagues), he pitched 3 no-hitters.







Chris......email me and we'll talk about the T206 card that I'm going to send you..... tedzan11@comcast.net



TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Name the T206 guy who holds a pitching record that I think has never been equaled. Most total games WON in his first two Major League seasons ?

First one here who posts the correct answer to this Trivia quiz is rewarded with a T206 card.


TED Z
.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Name the T206 guy who holds a pitching record that I think has never been equaled. Most total games WON in his first two Major League seasons ?

First one here who posts the correct answer to this Trivia quiz is rewarded with a T206 card.


TED Z
.

Vic Willis?

[mrdbrooks77]

Howie Camnitz?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[nat]

Joe McGinnity?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by nat

Joe McGinnity?

Rube Marquard?

[Thromdog]

Larry Corcoran had 74!!! Of course not a t206

[tedzan]

OK guys,

So far Joe McGinnity leads the pack. At this point, Nat (post # 341) appears to be the winner of this quiz.

56......Joe McGinnity (1899-1900)
52......Vic Willis (1898-1899)
48......Russ Ford (1910-1911)
37......Eddie Plank (1901-1902)
37......Ed Reulbach (1905-1906)
36......Cy Young (1890-1891)

We'll see if there are any more responses by 9 PM (EST) tonite. Then, I will declare the winner.

Thanks to everyone who participated in this quiz.


TED Z
.

[njdunkin1]

McGinnity seems right to me.

Great contest!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by nat

Joe McGinnity?

Nat you are the Trivia King tonite.

Email me and we'll talk about the T206 card that I'm going to send you..... tedzan11@comcast.net



TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by HawkFan70

Ted-

Is it Ted Breitenstein?

Originally Posted by nat

Joe McGinnity?

Chris and Nick

The T206 cards awarded to you for the correct answers to the Trivia quiz #1 and #2 will be in the mail to you today.

Thanks for participating in these Trivia quizzes.


TED Z
.

[HawkFan70]

I received the card today. Thanks so much, Ted!

[tedzan]

Double post.

[BoyWonder089]

Apologies if this is not the correct thread for this question, but I didn't want to start a new thread for what is probably a basic question.

My monster number is 1, so my T206 knowledge is very limited. I recently picked up a Bill Clymer in rough shape. I just happened to notice that there appears to be extra bright red spots on his face and hands. I have heard of missing red ink, but never extra red ink? Does anybody have an explanation as to what might cause this discoloration? Does it change any thing from a value standpoint?

Apologies for the photo, I am currently unable to take a decent scan.