The problem with the shiny stuff.

[KingFisk]

I know this is football specifically but this is just unreal. Another reason to be skeptical about modern collecting. http://www.sportscardradio.com/dak-p...topen-scandal/

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[swarmee]

Do you remember the Russell Wilson fiasco a couple of years ago where they bought Seahawks jerseys from China and inserted them in cards, as game-worn? And this was in a box of cards that cost $4,000 or something...

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Do you remember the Russell Wilson fiasco a couple of years ago where they bought Seahawks jerseys from China and inserted them in cards, as game-worn? And this was in a box of cards that cost $4,000 or something...

Yep. And I saw something not too long ago with some "game worn" jerseys cut up on a 1/1 (I think?), except the tags on the card were Mitchell and Ness. Can't make this stuff up.

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[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

I know this is football specifically but this is just unreal. Another reason to be skeptical about modern collecting. http://www.sportscardradio.com/dak-p...topen-scandal/

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Wow that's bad. But at least that is detectable to trained eyes and if it was widespread I'm sure we'd know about it.

I would certainly never trust a "game used" relic/swatch/fragment of something. Basically zero way to authenticate that other than taking the companies word for it.

[Econteachert205]

The only paninis I want have cheese and meat in them.

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

The only paninis I want have cheese and meat in them.

Nice. I ended up with four out of 25 signed Rashard Higgins 2016 National Treasures cards (don't ask, I don't even collect football or much modern), and I intend to corner that market. Never mind he is like the fourth WR on the Browns depth chart. After that, I am done with Panini.

[steve B]

Are autopens that good now that they can make slight differences? Or is he just using multiple autopens?

[yankeesjetsfan]

Panini should be held as accountable as Prescott needs to be for trying to rip off both Panini and the collectors. He was paid for his autograph. He needs to make it up to collectors for trying for autopen his sig & shame on Panini for not catching this before the cards went out.

Mike

[packs]

All of the signatures look exactly the same but were signed in different areas of the card. What a disgrace. Isn't this fraud? If he was paid, wouldn't this amount to wire fraud?

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by packs

All of the signatures look exactly the same but were signed in different areas of the card. What a disgrace. Isn't this fraud? If he was paid, wouldn't this amount to wire fraud?

Agreed on the fraud issue. I am not an attorney but this seems like a really big deal that could rattle the hobby and to some extent the NFL and NFLPA should it get more attention. Not sure if any of our many attorneys frequent this part of the board but would be interested in their take.

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[packs]

If I paid for a Dak auto or I bought a box of Panini because I wanted to pull the Dak auto, and the Dak auto provided by the player is a false signature, haven't I been defrauded?

[KingFisk]

WaPo has picked up story. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6a665ce68969

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[Cowboy Fan]

That sucks as a Cowboys fan, but maybe this will help rid the hobby of panini and the junk they mass produce. Bring back Topps football

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

All of the signatures look exactly the same but were signed in different areas of the card. What a disgrace. Isn't this fraud? If he was paid, wouldn't this amount to wire fraud?

But they're not exactly the same. Unless autopens have gotten way more advanced that would mean he used at least four of them.

[packs]

Does it? All machinery acquires defects through usage. It could just be imperfections created by prolonged use.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

If I paid for a Dak auto or I bought a box of Panini because I wanted to pull the Dak auto, and the Dak auto provided by the player is a false signature, haven't I been defrauded?

I am sure they will let you return the item for a real one or just give your money back.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sig is too elaborate that is a giveaway. Need a barely legible first and last initial with a little horizontal tail to look real these days.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

Does it? All machinery acquires defects through usage. It could just be imperfections created by prolonged use.

One of the sigs is larger than the others, and the entrance and exit from the D is different on all four. I can see the slight differences being machine wear if he's used it a ton, and modern ones are apparently computer controlled, so it could be some sort of difference in how the machine ran over time. But even cheap stuff like printers are pretty durable and accurate.

On the other hand, I also can't see someone being that consistent in overall size and placing of the number in what looks like the exact same spot relative to the rest of it.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

I know this is football specifically but this is just unreal. Another reason to be skeptical about modern collecting. http://www.sportscardradio.com/dak-p...topen-scandal/

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This is only Panini. Upper Deck had an employee get autos in person. Panini is a garbage company. UD had their problems, but they need to get their licenses back.

[bn2cardz]

This was an interesting interview/discussion about this.

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/vid...005417%2F&show

[Leon]

How anyone can collect that stuff after watching those interviews is just beyond me. Collectors should buy stock in Santa Claus as he seems more real than the majority of the shiny crap out there, at least according to those guys talking about how they all used stamps to autograph things. Just another reason I can't stand most new Pro sports athletes or new sports cards.

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

This was an interesting interview/discussion about this.

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/vid...005417%2F&show

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Leon

How anyone can collect that stuff after watching those interviews is just beyond me. Collectors should buy stock in Santa Claus as he seems more real than the majority of the shiny crap out there, at least according to those guys talking about how they all used stamps to autograph things. Just another reason I can't stand most new Pro sports athletes or new sports cards.

To be fair, to an extent, auto pens, wife signatures, secretarial, and bullpen signatures plague the vintage as well. Of course the difference is those weren't backed by a third party stating they were genuine.

[packs]

Yes, we should not forget the Sinclair Oil Ruth balls given out as prizes to people.

[WillBBC]

I think the only real issue with modern cards is the redundancy. And the secondary market seems to play that out nicely. Sets that are basically legacy products at this point (Topps, Topps Chrome, Bowman, Bowman Chrome, Heritage, Archives) cost pennies per pack compared to the super redundant high end products (Museum, Tier one, Immaculate, etc.) but the big cards from the far cheaper products outsell them 10:1.

I know Judge isn't the best example, but look at his Heritage, Finest, and Archives autographs and variations compared to Museum, Tier One, and Platinum. It's not even close. Same goes for guys like Benintenti, Bregman, KB, Trout, Harper, you name it.

[bn2cardz]

Here is an interesting article about some of the most prolific mistakes by Panini.

http://www.sportscardradio.com/panin...cams-mistakes/

For those of you that prefer a summation it includes the following:

1) Fake Game used
2) Fake Autos
3) "Event worn" materials being labeled as "game used" - which, to me, really just sounds like an unprovable, passable, excuse for using fakes.
4) Cards being held back and not released in the original release of the product, or released in the wrong product.
5) And of course the Auto Pen

[KingFisk]

Did you guys see the "resolution" to the scandal? A contract extension! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4c6f8fb5a9f2

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[Sierra79]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Did you guys see the "resolution" to the scandal? A contract extension! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4c6f8fb5a9f2

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Hopefully, that contract extension is likely, "you're going to sign for cheap, your going to sign a lot, and for a long time." also, did Dak apologize?

Either way I don't really collect to much of the premium era stuff with the exception of what I am still working on with my Maddux PC (which doesn't go past 2009).