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#51
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That's too bad. I was holding out hope that he at least would say something like "times were tough, money was tight, had to feed the family, in extreme debt, lost my job" Even if not true, it's better than nothing. The silence says it all I guess.
Jeff
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My collection can be viewed at http://imageevent.com/jeffintoronto Always looking for interesting pre-war baseball & hockey postcards! |
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Not only has he not said more, he did not even correct his nearly-incoherent (spell check gone amok, or intentional?) post, and he was logged in earlier today. Oh well.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#53
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In my opinion, it's never too late to come clean.
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My collection can be viewed at http://imageevent.com/jeffintoronto Always looking for interesting pre-war baseball & hockey postcards! |
#54
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By continuing to commit this crime after the first accusation in '09, it shows no remorse. I get irked when people try to justify crimes - aka excuses. 99% of human beings go through some sort of adversity at some point in their lives.
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Need a spreadsheet to help track your set, player run, or collection? Check out Sheets4Collectors on Etsy. https://www.etsy.com/shop/Sheets4Collectors - Hall of Famers Progress: 318/340 (93.53%) - Grover Hartley PC Needs: T207 Anonymous Factory 25 Back, 1914 New York Evening Sun Supplements, 1917 D328 Weil Baking Co., and (possibly) 1917 Merchant's Bakery - Jim Thome PC - Cleveland Indians Franchise Hall of Fame |
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My collection can be viewed at http://imageevent.com/jeffintoronto Always looking for interesting pre-war baseball & hockey postcards! |
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/bn2cardz/albums |
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The guy was better off just keeping his mouth shut.
No need to even plant a seed on this site. He was obviously drunk or stoned when he posted his message as well. Heck, makes you wonder what else this guy could be doing. |
#58
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I want to add a quick addendum. I think you are absolutely correct except in extraordinary cases like this. Usually, keeping your mouth shut is best. And lastly, I didn't ask for this to be part of my days. It sort of got thrown at me and something had to be done at that point. It took a little time to gather all of the info and get advice. Getting the word out asap was/is always a priority to me.
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Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 08-09-2017 at 10:13 AM. |
#59
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Good point Leon.
Sorry this got dumped on you. |
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So chances are the buyback that I have is probably not a topps buyback. Only reason I bought it was to have something a little different to go along with my back run.
This guy is a piece of crap! I never seen the old thread from 2009 until now. He stated that he didn't need the money and had 2 complete t206 sets. Wonder how many he made over all those years? Is there any way to tell which are legit topps buyback? Wonder what topps would think of this?
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TOP T206 WANTS *DRUM *CHarlie Rhodes errors & oddities Also would like to add a few AMERICAN BEAUTIES 350 frame,no frame and/or 460 |
#61
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Sure it is. Ask OJ. Perhaps this scum Larry is busy writing his new book titled "If I Did It: Confessions of the Fraud". Last edited by Il Padrino; 08-09-2017 at 12:55 PM. |
#62
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Don't Worry. I Can Help
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FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed from 2012 to 2024. Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served. If you want fries with your order, just speak up. Thank you all. Now nearly PQ. |
#63
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#64
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If anyone bought fraudulent cards in those holders they should request a refund and send the card back too (if Larry wants it). I am not sure how you tell unless you have before and after pictures, which there are some out there.
I think Larry might be more than willing to do what he can to make it right. At least that is my hope and what really has to be tried first anyway. It was certainly a sad day for me when I found this stuff out. .
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Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 08-09-2017 at 01:58 PM. |
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Well shit
I actually like and collect these cards, and now some guy has basically undermined the entire series. Thanks a lot butthole.
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#66
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Do guys really collect these? I honestly always thought the buy backs were some stupid thing Topps did that real T206 collectors just cut open anyways.
And why would anyone spend all that time and energy committing fraud for what appears to equate to less than minimum wage? Edited to add that I don't even collect T206....just going on what I've heard from many who do.
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Items for sale or trade here UPDATED 3-16-18 Last edited by conor912; 08-09-2017 at 02:44 PM. |
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.
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Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 08-09-2017 at 03:02 PM. |
#68
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I find myself asking this very question a lot. It amazes me how many dudes are trying to make 10's of dollars here and there in the baseball card trade when an equal amount of time and capital invested in other areas could be far more lucrative.
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#69
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WOW!!! Just wow!!! What seems like a "victimless" crime at first blush really has turned into a "shit-storm" (pardon my French). Like someone else said, this one individual has undermined the entire set. It has been ongoing for possibly 10+ years. I feel sorry for those that were actively collecting this set.
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#70
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Great, I have been buying and collecting the Topps T206 buybacks for years. I have about 15 now still in the Topps holder. Have cut about 6 out and had them graded by BVG. What a mess. Lesson learned. Will only buy graded from now on...
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Looking for T206 rare backs. Clemente PSA 7 https://sportscardalbum.com/u/gemmin...seball#!page=2 |
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Lesson learned. Will only buy graded from now on...[/QUOTE]
Why wouldn't you just buy raw? From what I have gathered people are paying a premium for cards in a crappy TOPPS cardboard and plasticine holder when the actual card would be considerably less if bought without that holder.
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'Integrity is what you do when no one is looking' "The man who can keep a secret may be wise, but he is not half as wise as the man with no secrets to keep” |
#73
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"And why would anyone spend all that time and energy committing fraud for what appears to equate to less than minimum wage?"
Ask Battlefield...those low $ transactions fly under the radar but eventually add up to some serious dough |
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I've read this whole string and wonder if real T206s were put into the buyback holders, or was it fake T206s put into the buyback holders, thus more profitable (and not questioned for authenticity) .
Cory Weiser |
#75
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Classic billboard Frank. The tagline could also have read "Just because you did it, doesn't mean you feel guilty". Brian |
#76
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In my original thread from 2009, I had all three stages of the process laid out. Not the actual switch, but both buying transactions from Ebay, then the "FrankenT206" Buyback. I had posted scans as well, but since then they are no longer in my original thread. On a good note, at least this time I didn't have to call Leon and interrupt his poker game. Remember that Leon? Jantz |
#77
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Larry or Leon,
About how many of these tainted T206 have been sold over the years? 5? 20? 100? More? Also, am I understanding correctly that in at least some instances the cards themselves were altered in some way? Derek Hogue |
#78
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All of the info was supplied to me by another board member but what was supplied looked spot on (obviously). I don't know positively of others but can only imagine. As far as I know a lot, if not most of the cards being put into the holders were AUT type cards. And on a lot of the before and after pictures, if not all, the after ones were cleaned too. That in itself isn't too big of a deal. All of other stuff is. .
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Leon Luckey |
#79
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I am still curious to know roughly how many of these were sold if and when that information becomes available. I hope that everyone will be given proper restitution and that Larry can find peace. I apologize and I am not trying to be nosey with my line of questioning ... I am just trying to take all of this in as information becomes available. I hope the number of these that were sold is small enough that the issue can be rectified. |
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.
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Leon Luckey |
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Last edited by DerekMichael; 08-09-2017 at 08:49 PM. Reason: . |
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#83
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Buy the card not the holder
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R Dixon |
#84
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Given the lack of communication from Larry this thread might be more aptly named..."not really that ashamed".
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#85
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.
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Leon Luckey |
#86
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I would suspect he hit the silence button because, lawyers help me out here, does that not constitute mail fraud?
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#87
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Who knows...I am sure he infringed on a few peoples toes. But yes, the mail fraud thing is huge, and I would think messing with Topps brand is huge also.
Last edited by bobbyw8469; 08-10-2017 at 09:12 AM. |
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Can't speak for other jurisdictions, but each individual incident would be a felony charge in the state where I practice (NC). Would also be a felony under federal law.
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Last edited by Bliggity; 08-10-2017 at 10:27 AM. |
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Copyright Infringement and Fraud = Yes and I'm sure Ebay has been notified. Interstate Fraud = Yes Wire Fraud = Yes etc. etc. etc. -------------------- 18 U.S.C. § 1341 provides: Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, or to sell, dispose of, loan, exchange, alter, give away, distribute, supply, or furnish or procure for unlawful use any counterfeit or spurious coin, obligation, security, or other article, or anything represented to be or intimated or held out to be such counterfeit or spurious article, for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice or attempting so to do, places in any post office or authorized depository for mail matter, any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by the Postal Service, or deposits or causes to be deposited any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by any private or commercial interstate carrier, or takes or receives therefrom, any such matter or thing, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail or such carrier according to the direction thereon, or at the place at which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, any such matter or thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation occurs in relation to, or involving any benefit authorized, transported, transmitted, transferred, disbursed, or paid in connection with, a Presidential declared major disaster or emergency (as those terms are defined in section 102 of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5122)), or affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both. Wire 18 U.S.C. § 1343 provides: Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both. Honest services 18 U.S.C. § 1346 provides: For the purposes of this chapter, the term “scheme or artifice to defraud” includes a scheme or artifice to deprive another of the intangible right of honest services. Elements There are three elements to mail and wire fraud: Intent; A "scheme or artifice to defraud" or the obtaining of property by fraud; and, A mail or wire communication. To be fraudulent, a misrepresentation must be material. Mail fraud applies only to United States domestic mailings and use of interstate carriers (UPS, FedEx) which must originate in one state, and successfully terminate pursuant to the address label inside another state, a transportation that is termed "interstate" (over which Congress has power to regulate) and does require that the mailing cross at least one state line into another state; wire fraud has been expanded by Congress to include foreign wire communication or interstate connections via (e.g.) an e-mail server or telephone switch or radio communication. |
#90
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So is this rube being charged and prosecuted?
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Working on the 1957 Topps set. |
#91
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http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=240701
Go to post #6, they all look sliced and diced to me.
__________________
My collection can be viewed at http://imageevent.com/jeffintoronto Always looking for interesting pre-war baseball & hockey postcards! Last edited by jb217676; 08-10-2017 at 11:33 AM. |
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Even though I have been involved I am not sure if any punitive situations will occur. My main goals are to help people get reimbursed for bad items and try to make sure the perpetrator quits doing what they are doing. I am not sure the dollar amounts justify a ton of authorities but anyone is always free to do anything they want to.
So, In the meantime Larry can be reached at - lharri3600@gmail.com .....I think he will happily accept a return provided the card is returned first. I would strongly recommend signature confirmation because of the nature of all of this. Please PM me with any specific issues and I will try to help best I can...Happy collecting. .
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Leon Luckey |
#93
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Due to the nature and extent of the scam, I would be leery sending him anything, even WITH signature confirmation. He obviously isn't fearful of authorities and what not. What is to stop him from collecting returned cards and reselling them again? He is obviously money hungry.
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#94
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I was talking to a friend of mine about this and, as unpopular as what I'm about to say might be, I'm not sure Larry did anything illegal. Unethical? Sure, absolutely, no question! But illegal? I'm not so sure.
The first thing you have to understand is that these are not Topps buybacks. Look at the Topps box packaging. Nowhere do they use the word buyback. This is a term that collectors dubbed them as. They couldn't be buybacks because they were never a Topps product to begin with. Larry (or you or I or anyone for that matter) have as much right to repackage a T206 as Topps does. Look at the Topps cards. Nowhere does it have their copyright/trademark. They can’t because it’s not their product. Now, they can with their own T206 bat cards, jersey cards, autographs, etc., but they cannot do it with the actual T206 cards because they do not belong to Topps. At least that’s my understanding. I can post more on this later. Again, I’m not arguing whether or not it’s ethical. It’s not! But I do question whether or not it’s illegal. |
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Hmmmm, definitely interesting, David!
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Working on the 1957 Topps set. |
#96
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The first question is whether there was any sort of copyright or trademark infringement. I'm not an expert in that area, but since Topps may not have a copyright or trademark on the buy back holder, I can see why that may create some gray area in this particular situation. However, as to the question of whether this violates any criminal laws, I would still say yes. Criminal liability usually attaches where there is an intent to defraud. Here, I think there was pretty clearly an intent to defraud based on the way he packaged the cards. He was clearly trying to deceive the purchasers. I believe that would come within most state and federal fraud-related statutes.
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#97
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Forget all of the copyright stuff as it could be illegal or could not be..who knows?
I will tell you what IS most likely illegal. It is knowingly and intentionally selling something that isn't what it is purported to be. I think that is fraud. If anyone doesn't want to send a card back to Larry, with Signature confirmation for a refund, which is crazy as there is no way in heck Larry is not going to make it right at this point, then I will be a middle person to send the card to. Once it gets to me, I will make sure the refund is done and the card gets to Larry. Quote:
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Leon Luckey |
#98
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Yup.
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#99
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The way to make money is with trimmed a d altered cards. There are definitely a few that fit this description in this instance, and generally people felt safe buying the buy backs because they were vetted.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
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A funny thing is, and if I'm correct in thinking what were the T206 'buybacks,' Topps usually used really low grade cards, didn't assign a grade, once in a while inserted the wrong issue and people here wondered why people would give a premium to a low grade T206 just because it was in one of those Topps holders.
Last edited by drcy; 08-10-2017 at 12:25 PM. |
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