5 Year Hall of Famers? Make your case

[frankbmd]

Generally the body of work over an entire career is required for consideration of Hall of Fame membership.

And generally the body of work lasts longer than five years.

Consider if you will Sandy Koufax though. The first seven years of his career were mediocre. His Hall of Fame career began in 1962 and lasted until 1966.
Though few would argue his Hall of fame selection.

Who are the other 5 Year Hall of Famers? Make your case.

Dizzy Dean was close from 1932-1936, but I would consider his 1937 season worthy, giving him 6.

Currently I suppose (Hi Jake), that one could make a case for Kershaw despite his lack of postseason prowess and chronic back issues. He was also a legitimate Cy Young award candidate for 7 consecutive years, giving him at least 7.

But there must be others and we are not talking about only left-handed pitchers who play(ed) for the Dodgers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Newhouser? Ed Walsh?

[drcy]

James Creighton should be in the Hall of Fame, but that is an exception to the rule rather than the rule being wrong.

[Jobu]

Jim Rice seems like a guy for this conversation if we are looking for guys in the Hall who did not dominate for more than a few years. He was really good in 1977-79 and 1983 and the decent to pretty good the rest of the time. 30+ HRs 4 times, 100+ rbs 8 times, and 100+ runs 3 times, and was not a great defender.

[Topnotchsy]

I feel like Johan Santana deserves to be in the Hall. I’d much prefer someone who was pretty much the undisputed best pitcher in baseball for half a decade in the Hall rather that guys who were never close to the best, but compiled solid stats for a long time.

Not sure how long Lefty O’Doul was a legit star but he’s another name that comes to mind.

[GaryPassamonte]

Ross Barnes 1871-1876. I know it's six years, but take a look. It's hard to top. Barnes's career was Koufax's in reverse.

[bgar3]

5 year totals,
93-35
93 complete games
20 shutouts
3-1 World Series
1912 combined 37-6
Outfielder for Cleveland including World Series.

[BLongley]

Jack Chesbro? He had about 5 good years of his 11, with his 41 win season often thought to be the only reason he got in the Hall.

I know his time was pre 1900, but Hoss Radbourn too? Similar to Chesbro with that one year where he won like 59 games and pitched every game... he did have a couple other good seasons as well, but still his total good seasons is around 5 I would say.

[riggs336]

Although "not a hall of famer on the best day of his life" (Bill James), Riggs Stephenson had a good run from 1926-1930 batting .342 with an OPS around .900 for the five year stretch. I asked him about the HOF in 1977. Not surprisingly he thought he should be in. I agreed with him at the time but I've changed my mind since. Nice man and a good ballplayer, though.

[BLongley]

For hitters it’s tougher, but maybe Ralph Kiner... he only played 9 years total... and had 5 maybe 6 solid years. Leading the league in homers for 6 years in a row...

[rats60]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Consider if you will Sandy Koufax though. The first seven years of his career were mediocre.

Koufax wasn't mediocre in 1961. He led the NL in strikeouts, FIP, Hits/9, K/9 and K/BB. He put up 5.7 WAR (5+ WAR is an All Star) which was 2nd in the NL. So, he had 6 years at HOF level, the last 4 as good as any 4 year run by a pitcher.

Addie Joss with only 9 full seasons would be a candidate with 7 good years. George Sisler had a good 7 year peak (1916-1922) then really fell off. High Pockets Kelly was only at starter level for 7 years (1920-26) and 9 of 16 years at less than 2 WAR per season. Freddie Lindstom was only at a starter level for 6 seasons (1926-1930, 1933). Chick Hafey had 7 seasons at starter level (1927-31, 33,34). Hack Wilson had 5 great seasons (1926-1930) but only had 2 more at starter level (1924,1932). Tommy McCarthy only had 6 years at starter level (1888, 1890-94). Rube Marquard is in the HOF based on 3 good seasons (1911-1913) with the Giants and 1 later with the Dodgers (1916).

[frankbmd]

Longevity is also a relative indicator of Hall of Fame potential, but if longevity is abbreviated by death, you can get in.

ADDIE JOSS

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BLongley

For hitters it’s tougher, but maybe Ralph Kiner... he only played 9 years total... and had 5 maybe 6 solid years. Leading the league in homers for 6 years in a row...

You seem to be subtracting one today. He played 10 years and led for 7 in a row.

[Andrew1975]

Originally Posted by bgar3

5 year totals,
93-35
93 complete games
20 shutouts
3-1 World Series
1912 combined 37-6
Outfielder for Cleveland including World Series.

+1

[ruth_rookie]

Back to back MVP (‘60 and ‘61)
Steroid-free, single-season HR record
Maris gets my vote. Great idea for a thread btw. I love hearing debates like this.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

I feel like Johan Santana deserves to be in the Hall. I’d much prefer someone who was pretty much the undisputed best pitcher in baseball for half a decade in the Hall rather that guys who were never close to the best, but compiled solid stats for a long time.

Not sure how long Lefty O’Doul was a legit star but he’s another name that comes to mind.

Santana has a much stronger case than I thought. He would not be out of place in the Hall, for sure.

Lefty had basically four years as a top player.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Newhouser? Ed Walsh?

Walsh had 7 years as a top pitcher.

[Fred]

Gavvy Cravath - From 1913-1919 he led the league in HRs in 6 out of 7 years. In 1913, the year he didn't lead the league, he was second. He also led the league in RBIs twice in that period.

Lefty O'Doul - hit .365 from 1928-1932

Probably a lot of 5 year guys out there.

I can think of a few more right off the bat.

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Lefty had basically four years as a top player.

Lefty deserves to be in the Hall as a "builder" but his performance as a player certainly doesn't hurt.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Santana has a much stronger case than I thought. He would not be out of place in the Hall, for sure.

Lefty had basically four years as a top player.

At 2.4 percent in his first year of eligibility he has a long way to go.

[jpop43]

Don Mattingly: 1984- 1989

MVP, Batting Title, x5 All-Star, x3 Sliver Slugger, x5 Gold Gloves

[Jason19th]

I think the barber gets forgotten - but from 1950-1954 he went 73-33

[Peter_Spaeth]

Don Newcombe was great for the first 5/6 years of his career and missed two peak years for military service.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by jpop43

Don Mattingly: 1984- 1989

MVP, Batting Title, x5 All-Star, x3 Sliver Slugger, x5 Gold Gloves

Pedro Tony Oliva: 1964-1971

x3 Batting Title, x8 All-Star, x4 Hits leader, x4 Doubles leader, 1 Gold Glove*


* - I'm not real keen on gold glove awards as Palmeiro got one while being a DH.

[iwantitiwinit]

Albert Belle 1995-1999

Runs 556 5yr avg 111.2
Hits 915 183
Doubles 219 43.8
HR's 214 42.8
RBI's 659 131.8
Avg .305

[Touch'EmAll]

I like this "...but if longevity is abbreviated by death, you can get in." What about a career ending injury? Can/should you be able to get in? I am referring to Bo Jackson (I would first induct him into Football HOF). Are there extra bonus HOF points for death vs. career ending injury?

[btcarfagno]

Dave Parker 1975-1979

2 Batting Titles, 1 MVP, 3 Gold Gloves, .321 Batting Average, 146 OPS+


Babe Herman 1928-1932

.351 Batting Average, 208 Doubles, 65 Triples, 102 Homers, 152 OPS+


Dave Orr 1884-1890

.346 Batting Average, 1 Batting Title, 2 Slugging Titles, 161 OPS+, 202 OPS+ in 1885(only Dan Brouthers twice and Tip O'Neil once had a higher single season OPS+ from 1882-1903)

[frankbmd]

The thread seems to have shifted into what my next thread was going to be and that’s okay.

This thread was to be for actual HOFers whose HOF credentials were confined to a five year portion of their career, like Koufax.

The next planned thread was to be for HOF wannabes who left the gates like gangbusters and then become ordinary ballplayers and never made it to Cooperstown, such as Mattingly or Albert Belle perhaps.

The second group could be considered “pseudo-HOFers” perhaps.

I would not distinguish between career ending injury and death, the ultimate career ending injury.

Both groups are now represented in this thread eliminating the need for a second thread. I will leave it to reader to decide which group the cited player is in.

Hint: If he is not in the list of HOFers, he is in the second group.

[Rookiemonster]

Larry Doyle

1908 -1912

1 MVP

Avg 307 runs 448 hits 799 rbi 319


HR 37 SB 161

He was considered one of the best fields of his time. And when he retired he had the top marks for a second baseman in a lot of stats.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Dave Parker 1975-1979

2 Batting Titles, 1 MVP, 3 Gold Gloves, .321 Batting Average, 146 OPS+


Babe Herman 1928-1932

.351 Batting Average, 208 Doubles, 65 Triples, 102 Homers, 152 OPS+


Dave Orr 1884-1890

.346 Batting Average, 1 Batting Title, 2 Slugging Titles, 161 OPS+, 202 OPS+ in 1885(only Dan Brouthers twice and Tip O'Neil once had a higher single season OPS+ from 1882-1903)

Good list. I also nominate o'Doul and Sisler, the latter having got into the hall because of his magnificent play from 1917 through the1922 season. His war those years 5.9, 6.8, 6.1, 9.8, 5.7, 8.7.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by BLongley

For hitters it’s tougher, but maybe Ralph Kiner... he only played 9 years total... and had 5 maybe 6 solid years. Leading the league in homers for 6 years in a row...

I looked up his numbers and can't believe he didn't win MVP in 1947.. He finished 6th and Bob Elliott who had worse numbers than Kiner.

[ejharrington]

Dwight Gooden's first five years in the majors were HOF worthy.

Ross Barnes (already mentioned) had a five year stretch that was unbelievable. I think he should be in HOF as a Pioneer.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Albert Belle 1995-1999

Runs 556 5yr avg 111.2
Hits 915 183
Doubles 219 43.8
HR's 214 42.8
RBI's 659 131.8
Avg .305

Belle is a no-brainer HOFer. Him not being in is a joke. He was actually the hitter the "Jim Rice was FEARED" people claim Rice to have been. 9 straight years as an elite hitter with a 10th very good year on one leg. 40 homers every 162 games. Gimme a break.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

I like this "...but if longevity is abbreviated by death, you can get in." What about a career ending injury? Can/should you be able to get in? I am referring to Bo Jackson (I would first induct him into Football HOF). Are there extra bonus HOF points for death vs. career ending injury?

Bo isn't even close to being a HOF level pro football player. You gotta play at least one full season, IMHO.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Belle is a no-brainer HOFer. Him not being in is a joke. He was actually the hitter the "Jim Rice was FEARED" people claim Rice to have been. 9 straight years as an elite hitter with a 10th very good year on one leg. 40 homers every 162 games. Gimme a break.

Remind me why he just vanished at age 33, did he have a career ending injury?

[sycks22]

Bob Hamelin.

'94 ROY, next year he hit .168 and was out of baseball in a couple years. Maybe not a HOFer

[alaskapaul3]

Semi surprised no one mentioned Fred Lynn's Boston years 1975-80
Rookie of the year.
MVP
6 straight all star appearances
4 Gold Gloves

.308 124HR 521RBI 43 SB

...and then... the drop off

I'll go Al Spalding 1871-1876 for HOF (although , technically he is in as a pioneer)

[parker1b2]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Remind me why he just vanished at age 33, did he have a career ending injury?

Degenerative hip Osteoarthritis ended his career. He should have won the MVP in 1995, but lost to Mo Vaughn caus of his poor relationship with the media. He should be in the HOF, but his attitude with media and fans kept him out.

[Touch'EmAll]

Yes, Bo never played an entire NFL season. The reason ? He was too darn good at MLB (all-star) that it encroached on his NFL career. His throwing arm most definitely ranks in the top ten in the entire history of MLB. The outfield range with Bo was also incredible. So his MLB all-star status kept him from racking up NFL stat brownie points. If he didn't play MLB, his NFL stats would be even more impressive.

But lets look at his NFL stats compared to, say, the recognized greatest running back of all time, Jim Brown. Brown played in 118 games. Bo played in roughly one third the games Brown did - 38 games. One of the biggest (if not The biggest) woo hoo stat for NFL running backs is Yards per Carry. Jim Brown had a higher career yards per carry more than anyone at 5.2 - well, better than almost everyone. Bo Jackson had 5.4

Speed? At an NFL combine, Bo ran the 40 in 4.12 seconds. Still the fastest 40 ever recorded at any NFL combine. Bo is up with the fastest NFL'ers of all time. It has been said that only Bob Hayes could have been faster. Bob Hayes won an Olympic Gold Medal at the 100 Meters and at the time set a World Record.

Strength & Power? Bo just bowled them over with his unbelievable power. Take a look at some youtube highlight videos, and I think you too will agree that his strength was unparalleled as an NFL running back.

So, Bo missed out on NFL games because of two reasons - he was too good at MLB, and then had a career ending injury.

I have not seen all the greats, however, from what I have seen, in my lifetime Bo had the best outfield arm I ever saw, was the fastest NFL'er I ever saw, had the most power of any NFL running back I ever saw, and compiled the highest yards per carry of any NFL running back ever to play the game.

He really should be in at least the NFL football HOF. Oh, that third word - FAME. Yeah, he was pretty darn famous. Imho, Bo & Jordan probably the two most famous athletes of my time. That should count for something as well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

He should be fin or the Bo Knows commercial -- especially the rarer longer one -- if for no other reason. Perhaps the best ad ever.

The greatest athlete I ever hope to see. His college highlight films are completely off the charts, there was nobody else that good IMO.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by alaskapaul3

Semi surprised no one mentioned Fred Lynn's Boston years 1975-80
Rookie of the year.
MVP
6 straight all star appearances
4 Gold Gloves

.308 124HR 521RBI 43 SB

...and then... the drop off

I'll go Al Spalding 1871-1876 for HOF (although , technically he is in as a pioneer)

Dwight Gooden sure fell from grace after a spectacular start. Canseco, to an extent.

[tjenkins]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Pedro Tony Oliva: 1964-1971

x3 Batting Title, x8 All-Star, x4 Hits leader, x4 Doubles leader, 1 Gold Glove*


* - I'm not real keen on gold glove awards as Palmeiro got one while being a DH.

I am am in agreement with Clydepepper with Tony O. He was as good as Clemente when he was good. Bad knees ruined his career. I have always been most impressed with the way he goes to communities as an ambassador to baseball. I live in South Dakota and he married a South Dakota girl and has been to our community a number of times to put on clinics.

[Mdmtx]

Silver King

[topcat61]

Cardinals and Reds Outfielder Chick Hafey had a 13 year career, but had only 5 full seasons. Most say he's one of the least qualified candidates in the Hall and got in as a "Friend of Frankie". I give him some slack because he may have been legally blind.

[Baseballcrazy62]

Bill Freehan: 10 straight All-Star games and 11 total all star appearance’s from 64-75. Was one of the dominant catchers of his era and won a World Series. In 1982 he received .5% of the votes from the writers. There was a great story yesterday in the Detroit Free Press

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...rs/1739616002/

Mickey Lolich: won 97 games from 68-72. Also won 3 games in the 68 World Series. Pitched 1475 innings during that stretch including 376 innings in 1971. Never received more than 25% of the writers votes. Also had 88 complete games during that stretch.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Jimmy Ryan. Side note, love watching the Bo 30 for 30.

[packs]

Hard to top Lefty O'Doul from 1929 to 1932. If he had hit 400 instead of 398 in 1929 I'm pretty sure he'd be in.

I always thought Babe Herman has been criminally overlooked. He's a career 324 hitter over 13 seasons, really only 11 full. A guy who averaged a 324 average and 100 RBI's over his career should be remembered a lot more than he is.

[Throttlesteer]

Larry Walker - from 1997 to 2002, he was beyond impressive. A couple of batting titles, some pop in the bat, and playing a position that gets little attention.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

Larry Walker - from 1997 to 2002, he was beyond impressive. A couple of batting titles, some pop in the bat, and playing a position that gets little attention.

If Colorado is considered a position...

[ronniehatesjazz]

I’m amazed that none of you neanderthals mentioned Big Klu from 52-56 when he terrorized every slabman in the national league! Also, totally agree with lefty o doul and gavvy carrath. Should both be hofers IMO.