The New York Times puts their two cents into the Jeter memorabilia story

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I'm wrong? Your answer is Koufax has to sign like Bob Feller? In fact, has a civic duty to sign like Feller?

Thanks for strengthening my point! There never was a market (shall we say "demand?) for $600 Feller signatures. Why? 'Cause he never stopped signing for nothing (or next to nothing.)

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Thanks for strengthening my point! There never was a market (shall we say "demand?) for $600 Feller signatures. Why? 'Cause he never stopped signing for nothing (or next to nothing.)

Koufax obviously has better things to do with his life than set up shop at the concession stand at Land o Lakes park every day in March for the rest of his life.

As long as there is a demand for his signature (shall we say "market") you would require the athlete to flood the market with free signatures until the demand was covered? You fault the athlete for monetizing his signature. In what other industry do you intentionally dilute your market?

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

You fault the athlete for monetizing his signature. In what other industry do you intentionally dilute your market?

Of course I do. They never should have created the "market" in the first place. (Then there'd be nothing to "dilute.")

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Of course I do. They never should have created the "market" in the first place. (Then there'd be nothing to "dilute.")

Here you actually fault the athlete because a fan sold his signature.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Here you actually fault the athlete because a fan sold his signature.

What are you talking about? If the athlete keeps signing for free, there's no market for the sold signature. A few will sell, but not many, and not for high prices. Only the athlete has the power to create a real market, by not "leaking."

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

What are you talking about? If the athlete keeps signing for free, there's no market for the sold signature. A few will sell, but not many, and not for high prices. Only the athlete has the power to create a real market, by not "leaking."

D'oh, we were so close to an agreement here.

I think what you meant is "only the athlete has the power to dilute his market." This might be chicken egg territory, but I think the market arose from collector behavior, and the athlete can either try to tap into that market, or spare no effort to dilute the market. I think most athletes do a combination of both. And I certainly think, for the record, that Koufax is no worse than Ruth would have been in that department.

[David Atkatz]

You can keep believing whatever you like. Unfortunately, while we can imagine what Ruth might or might not have done in some alternate reality in which he meets Brandon Steiner, we'll never really know, will we?

[Exhibitman]

I understand David's frustration with the commoditization of autograph collecting but it is seeing the past through rose-colored lenses [and terribly naive] to believe that the elite athletes of the past would not have embraced the current system had it been there. A lot of it comes down to personalities. Jeter falls into the Joe DiMaggio mode ["Gods do not answer letters"; a quote about Williams but aporpos here] of being a distant, regal personality. Having him engage in a 'sterile' signing is probably the only way it will happen; I bet that once his playing days are over he will be the sort who rarely does a show unless he needs the money. Babe Ruth was a big, gregarious personality who seemed to like people and signed a hell of a lot. That's unusual; he could handle it. Sandy Koufax is not. He's a shy man who's found a way to deal with fame and autograph seekers as painlessly as possible. Koufax could be out every weekend collecting big appearance fees and making commercials right and left if he was so inclined. He isn't. He does sign for free, BTW, but only for people he knows [a client who is a childhood "friend of Sandy" from Brooklyn got him to sign and personalize a ball for me several years ago*]. Bob Feller clearly had some personal need to be out there pushing all the time, meeting, greeting and signing away. He may have devalued his autograph to the point where it is almost a nuisance [dammit, Bob, put away the pen], but other than the odd quip about a Feller card not signed by Feller being a condition rarity, I don't hear any real complaining because he did so. I also don't hear anything bad about Stan Musial, who charges pretty good for his autograph [$100 for a flat TTM through his web site] but who delivers a winning personality when he does a show or deals with fans.



* Good story there: I had a Nolan Ryan inscribed signed ball that a cousin who worked for Bristol Meyers got for me during an Advil commercial shoot. When my client told me he was seeing Koufax and asked if I wanted a Koufax signature I asked him to have Koufax sign the same ball with the same inscription. He [client] called me and said "Sandy won't sign. He said 'what the f** do I want to be on a ball with Ryan for?'" It was a joke, of course; he signed it and it is a treasured baseball in my very modest collection.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Thanks for strengthening my point! There never was a market (shall we say "demand?) for $600 Feller signatures. Why? 'Cause he never stopped signing for nothing (or next to nothing.)

David,
I can't believe we're totally on the same page here. BTW, thanks for pleading my side of the case while I slept. Do you and T206 ever sleep, BTW?

[barrysloate]

In my entire life as a baseball fan and memorabilia collector, the total number of autographs I've gotten in person is one- Joe DiMaggio's when he signed for free at a Bowery Savings Bank in downtown Brooklyn. He was pleasant and we were able to chat for a few minutes. Other than that, I have never had even a scintilla of interest in getting a famous athlete to sign something. I've always felt it was utterly meaningless and never understood the phenomenon.

Steiner certainly may be greedy for asking $600 for a signed Jeter ball, but what I cannot fathom is why there is a single person on this earth who would want to buy one. I would put a market value of about three cents on it, and I would have to be in a generous mood to even pay that. When I used to go to shows and see people standing on line for hours, just so they could overpay for an autograph from some surly ex-athlete who might not even make eye contact with them, I would shake my head in disbelief. Surely there has to be a better way to spend one's time and money.

But the world doesn't always listen to me, and this silly market of hero worship will continue unabated. Hey, people can spend their money as they wish.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Steiner certainly may be greedy for asking $600 for a signed Jeter ball, but what I cannot fathom is why there is a single person on this earth who would want to buy one.

You nailed it Barry...all this anger at Steiner should be aimed at the people who drive this market...autographed baseballs are not electricity or gasoline..it is not food...there apparently exist people who will pay $500 for an autograph of someone still breathing. Steiner is just obliging them.

[calvindog]

Agreed. Any putz who spends $600 on a Jeter signed ball can be assured he will never get his money back when he tries to sell it.

[ChiefBenderForever]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Agreed. Any putz who spends $600 on a Jeter signed ball can be assured he will never get his money back when he tries to sell it.

But don't you think most people are getting one as a souvenier and not even thinking about ever selling it ? After the Red Sox won the 2004 World Series I was beyond appalled when they held a special signing for their great fans at only $160 per sig per player per item and had lines a mile long. I could see $160 for the whole team but per player, regardless of who it was and the fans couldn't get enough, when you think of that $599 to get a signed memento from one of the greatest games of Jeters life doesn't seem so outrageous. Would I pay it ? No, but then again I won't pay $1000 to take my kids to see the Yankees or the Red Sox, or I should say can't justify what used to be a great day has now become a vacation, for most people anyways. I've been priced out of professional sports, on the east coast anyways.......

[HRBAKER]

A souvenir of what really? The balls weren't used in the game. Nothing is to keep Jeter from signing a ball the same way ten years from now (as long as you pay for the inscription I assume).

The reality is that this is what the game and industry has become and how it will stay as long as there is a market for these items. Surely no one is buying a $600 Jeter auto'd ball as an investment.