OT: No One Elected to the Hall?

[CMIZ5290]

I know it's a long shot, but I would love to see Dale Murphy get in. Yes, his stats are not as good as others, but his character and integrity are second to none.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I know it's a long shot, but I would love to see Dale Murphy get in. Yes, his stats are not as good as others, but his character and integrity are second to none.

+1

[insidethewrapper]

I didn't know steroids improved your eyesight and eye-hand coordination. You still have to hit the ball. Besides, it wasn't ever against any rules back then. Nothing was in place. I'm not saying it was right , but it wasn't against the rules. The best of that era should still get into the HOF.

Gaylord Perry actually cheated against the rules and he is in !
Players use Ritalin to concentrate better, and eye surgery to see better. Didn't Tiger Woods have lasik to improve to 20/10 eyesight. Doesn't this give these players an advantage making contact with the ball ! Why is it OK to improve by these means and not others ?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I bet these numbers are low because some guys didn't respond truthfully. But it's football, so we don't care.

"In a survey that guaranteed confidentiality, 2,552 former pro football players answered questions on their use of performance-enhancing steroids and the musculoskeletal injuries they suffered during their playing years.

Among the ex-players, 9.1 percent said they had used steroids, with certain categories of players more likely to report using the drugs. For example, 16.3 percent of offensive linemen admitted using steroids, as did 14.8 percent of defensive lineman.

The high-water mark for steroid use occurred in the 1980s, when about one in every five players, 20.3 percent, said they had tried the drugs. Use declined in the 1990s and beyond to 12.7 percent of players, the researchers reported."

[Jlighter]

Nate Silver weighs in on the issue.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...a-out-of-hall/

[novakjr]

I think they need to get rid of the 10 player minimum. And probably change the votes. I think once you give a player your vote, it should stick throughout their entire candidacy. This isn't about comparing players that are on the same ballot, it's about who deserves to be in the HOF..

I've seen WAY too many articles from these voters, where they've mentioned how they voted for someone in the past, but not this year(sometimes, for no reason whatsoever). In the cases where damaging evidence comes out won't matter, because they still won't be gaining votes to get in(although I could see the possibility of petitioning to be allowed to remove someone) Once you cast your vote that you think that someone IS a HOFer, it should stick.. Removing the limits could eliminate this problem on it's own though....

Also, if a voter turns in a ballot with NO names, then it shouldn't count towards the total. The guys that don't turn theirs in, don't count towards the totals, so why should an empty one? My feeling is that the guys who turn in empty ballots are mostly just doing so to be D1CKS...

[ctownboy]

Insidethewrapper,

1) Supposedly there are some steroids that do help with vision. I think it is some sort of steroid given to horses.

2) Even if they don't help your vision they DO help prolong a career. Look at baseball players BEFORE the Steroid Era and what you will find is that most of them have a similar arc; they put up their best stats when they were in their late 20's, had their performance drop some over the next few years and then started to really tail off after the age of 35. Now look at the Steroid Era.

Like Keith Olbermann said in his blog article (which was posted earlier). In the Steroid Era you had big guys hitting Home Runs MUCH farther than they had before. You had smaller middle infield - typo players hitting more Home Runs than they ever had and also hitting opposite field Home Runs where they had hardly ever done that. Most telling of all, you had guys over the age or 35 putting up better stats than they had at the age of 25. That just does not happen in normal baseball.

Johhny Bench and Yogi Berra were retired by the age of 35. Jimmie Foxx was pretty much done by the age of 32. Yet there Barry Bonds was putting up numbers NO ONE had ever put up before.

If you look at the research, baseball players' peaks usually come between the ages of 26 to 29. This is because their bodies have matured and they have played enough games that their experience helps them. After the age of 30, most mens metabolism starts to slow down (so gaining weight is easier and losing it is harder). A little later in their 30's, the testosterone production starts to fall. So these things added to the fact that reflexes also start to slow accounts for why baseball players stats drop over time as they get older.

Then there are cases like Barry Bonds.

During Bonds first 11 years in MLB, he had a high of 46 Home Runs and had hit 40+ Home Runs in three different seasons. During what most player's peak years would be (26 - 29) Bonds hit 25, 34, 46 and 37 Home Runs, respectively. Notice that the 46 Home Runs were his high to that point of his career and came in his age 28 season.

Now look what happens later.

Ages 30 -34, Bonds hits 33, 42, 40, 37 and 34 Home Runs, respectively.

Ages 35 - 39, Bonds hits 49, 73, 46, 45 and 45.

So, he hti at or above his career high in HR's every year while ALSO getting fewer pitches to hit (because pitchers were walking him so much).

This isn't to even mention the increase in the actual size of his head and feet. I don't know how old you are but I am in my mid - 40's and the size of my head and feet hasn't increased since I was a teenager. Yet a guy on the Giants said that Bonds hat and shoe size increased in his later years. Years when MOST people's bones have already matured and fused together so that growth CAN"T happen.

Finally, people say that there weren't rules against steroids before 2004. WRONG. Google Fay Vincent and steroids and see what you come up with. There are a couple of interesting articles, one of which talks about Bud Selig when he was the owner of the Brewers.

David

[tbob]

According to ESPN today, Dale Murphy will not get enough votes to even stay on the ballot for next year, much less ever make it in to the Hall. Hard to imagine Billy Williams in the Hall and Dale Murphy not.
I predict Biggio and Piazza get in with Jack Morris close. That's it. No Raines, Walker, Palmeiro, Clemens,Trammell, Bonds, Sosa, Lee Smith, Edgar Martinez or Schilling.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by tbob

According to ESPN today, Dale Murphy will not get enough votes to even stay on the ballot for next year, much less ever make it in to the Hall. Hard to imagine Billy Williams in the Hall and Dale Murphy not.
I predict Biggio and Piazza get in with Jack Morris close. That's it. No Raines, Walker, Palmeiro, Clemens,Trammell, Bonds, Sosa, Lee Smith, Edgar Martinez or Schilling.

You may have read that wrong. He won't be on next year's ballot because this year is his 15th and final year to be eligible on it...

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by tbob

According to ESPN today, Dale Murphy will not get enough votes to even stay on the ballot for next year, much less ever make it in to the Hall. Hard to imagine Billy Williams in the Hall and Dale Murphy not.
I predict Biggio and Piazza get in with Jack Morris close. That's it. No Raines, Walker, Palmeiro, Clemens,Trammell, Bonds, Sosa, Lee Smith, Edgar Martinez or Schilling.

+1

[David W]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I didn't know steroids improved your eyesight and eye-hand coordination. You still have to hit the ball. Besides, it wasn't ever against any rules back then. Nothing was in place. I'm not saying it was right , but it wasn't against the rules. The best of that era should still get into the HOF.

Gaylord Perry actually cheated against the rules and he is in !
Players use Ritalin to concentrate better, and eye surgery to see better. Didn't Tiger Woods have lasik to improve to 20/10 eyesight. Doesn't this give these players an advantage making contact with the ball ! Why is it OK to improve by these means and not others ?

One of the big benefits of steroids is to help in the healing process or to mask minor injuries. I was prescribed steroids for 3 months last Feb/March/April hoping to heal my ankle, which ultimately did not work as I eventually tore the tendon on the outside in half.

But what did happen is after that shot in the tendon, within 6-8 hours, I felt completely healthy, with no limitations on activity.

So if you were a ball player with a slight injury you could take a steroid shot, perhaps at first legally prescribed by a doctor, and then later illegally and you feel 100%. This would be a huge benefit somewhere around game 100 in July for a ball player.