Please sign Mr Jeter - NY Times article about collecting Jeter in Fla

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Because he rolls by and doesn't speak to the fans doesn't make Jeter a jerk.

Uhhh... yes, it does.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Uhhh... yes, it does.

yep,

joe louis didnt have a inconsiderate bone in his body for his fans. he would talk, sign, he was gracious, he got asked ALL the time for 40 years. he wouldn't pull this "i am better than you" routine. There were probably days he didn't feel like signing and maybe didn't sign, but he didn't act like he was better than the "unwashed" masses.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by travrosty

yep,

joe louis didnt have a inconsiderate bone in his body for his fans. he would talk, sign, he was gracious, he got asked ALL the time for 40 years. he wouldn't pull this "i am better than you" routine. There were probably days he didn't feel like signing and maybe didn't sign, but he didn't act like he was better than the "unwashed" masses.

Did you hear Jeter say "I'm better than you?" Or is that just the extent of your hyperbole after you read the quotes of a security guard, written from the angle of a journalist who is out to get his article noticed? I'm willing to bet you've not had enough encounters with Jeter to put words in his mouth.

One thing you guys fail to realize is that a large portion of autograph hounds can be extremely rude, pushy and downright nasty to deal with. They invade the athletes' private lives and stalk them just to get a signature, yet these same people won't pay for a GA ticket to try and get the same guy at a ballgame. Interrupting them at dinner, following them through the streets, calling hotels to find where they're staying...it's insane. I don't care how nice an athlete is, that crap would get old. The dealers are even worse, especially in New York where Jeter has played half his games over 20 years. The dealers do all those things AND will push and shove because if they don't get a graph that day, they can't pay their bills. Then when a guy doesn't sign, they yell at the athete or curse them out. Yeah, that really makes a guy want to sign in the future. The Babe Ruth comparison is really apples and oranges because autograph collectors in Babe Ruth's day weren't pushing kids out of the way to get 20 of the same 11x14 signed. So if after dealing with all this and much more over the course of his career, if Jeter wants to roll by the line of autograph seekers and wave, I think he's earned that right. And it's not even like he NEVER signs. The one guy in the article got him 30 times!

[jimjim]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Did you hear Jeter say "I'm better than you?" Or is that just the extent of your hyperbole after you read the quotes of a security guard, written from the angle of a journalist who is out to get his article noticed? I'm willing to bet you've not had enough encounters with Jeter to put words in his mouth.

One thing you guys fail to realize is that a large portion of autograph hounds can be extremely rude, pushy and downright nasty to deal with. They invade the athletes' private lives and stalk them just to get a signature, yet these same people won't pay for a GA ticket to try and get the same guy at a ballgame. Interrupting them at dinner, following them through the streets, calling hotels to find where they're staying...it's insane. I don't care how nice an athlete is, that crap would get old. The dealers are even worse, especially in New York where Jeter has played half his games over 20 years. The dealers do all those things AND will push and shove because if they don't get a graph that day, they can't pay their bills. Then when a guy doesn't sign, they yell at the athete or curse them out. Yeah, that really makes a guy want to sign in the future. The Babe Ruth comparison is really apples and oranges because autograph collectors in Babe Ruth's day weren't pushing kids out of the way to get 20 of the same 11x14 signed. So if after dealing with all this and much more over the course of his career, if Jeter wants to roll by the line of autograph seekers and wave, I think he's earned that right. And it's not even like he NEVER signs. The one guy in the article got him 30 times!

+1

I used to live in Philly, and I would go to the stadiums and wait outside once in a while when I had some time on my hands. Those dealers were brutal. And then I decided to try the hotel once or twice. They were even worse there. Dealers from NYC would come down and literally act like animals. Never seen anything like it before. And the autographs the players gave out were just c**p. I remember going for Wayne Gretzky at the hotel when he was coach for the Coyotes. I was hanging inside the hotel just to relax, and saw him chilling in a chair. I decided to not bug him and wait for him to run the line outside, as I was very confident he would stop (bad decision). He comes outside, I run out and get in line, and he does stop and sign but it was a madhouse, and the autographs he gave out were horrible. I don't even have that photo framed, it is that bad. Not sure how the dealers can even sell that stuff. Plus he was calling out the double dippers, and they were denying and arguing with him. I decided then and there that it wasn't worth it, and I was completely embarrassed to be associated with that dealer scum. Haven't gone back to a hotel since. Plus I moved down South and things are much more civilized here. Of course there are plenty of dealers, but at least they have manners!

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by jimjim

+1

I used to live in Philly, and I would go to the stadiums and wait outside once in a while when I had some time on my hands. Those dealers were brutal. And then I decided to try the hotel once or twice. They were even worse there. Dealers from NYC would come down and literally act like animals. Never seen anything like it before. And the autographs the players gave out were just c**p. I remember going for Wayne Gretzky at the hotel when he was coach for the Coyotes. I was hanging inside the hotel just to relax, and saw him chilling in a chair. I decided to not bug him and wait for him to run the line outside, as I was very confident he would stop (bad decision). He comes outside, I run out and get in line, and he does stop and sign but it was a madhouse, and the autographs he gave out were horrible. I don't even have that photo framed, it is that bad. Not sure how the dealers can even sell that stuff. Plus he was calling out the double dippers, and they were denying and arguing with him. I decided then and there that it wasn't worth it, and I was completely embarrassed to be associated with that dealer scum. Haven't gone back to a hotel since. Plus I moved down South and things are much more civilized here. Of course there are plenty of dealers, but at least they have manners!

+100
Those 'Out-of-towners' would say some of the rudest, nastiest stuff if they didn't get their quota. I mean what is the 'acceptable' allocation of time to sign after a game? 5, 10, 15 minutes. An hour? 20 autographs? 200?

Some have judged a players stance on the time it takes to sign an autograph. Have you ever seen an accomodating player signing all different kinds of material, usually having to take the cap off of any pen (or worse looking to borrow one that works), balancing the item on his palm or thigh? And then being cursed out because he wouldn't sign a dozen balls in a freshly opened box?

As far back as I go, dealers have used little kids as pawns. Most likely those kids in the article had the autograph in their hands for less than a minute. My guess is that there will be a sudden influx of children standing in line.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Did you hear Jeter say "I'm better than you?" Or is that just the extent of your hyperbole after you read the quotes of a security guard, written from the angle of a journalist who is out to get his article noticed? I'm willing to bet you've not had enough encounters with Jeter to put words in his mouth.

One thing you guys fail to realize is that a large portion of autograph hounds can be extremely rude, pushy and downright nasty to deal with. They invade the athletes' private lives and stalk them just to get a signature, yet these same people won't pay for a GA ticket to try and get the same guy at a ballgame. Interrupting them at dinner, following them through the streets, calling hotels to find where they're staying...it's insane. I don't care how nice an athlete is, that crap would get old. The dealers are even worse, especially in New York where Jeter has played half his games over 20 years. The dealers do all those things AND will push and shove because if they don't get a graph that day, they can't pay their bills. Then when a guy doesn't sign, they yell at the athete or curse them out. Yeah, that really makes a guy want to sign in the future. The Babe Ruth comparison is really apples and oranges because autograph collectors in Babe Ruth's day weren't pushing kids out of the way to get 20 of the same 11x14 signed. So if after dealing with all this and much more over the course of his career, if Jeter wants to roll by the line of autograph seekers and wave, I think he's earned that right. And it's not even like he NEVER signs. The one guy in the article got him 30 times!

he didnt have to say it with his mouth, he says it with his actions. all he has to do is not sign for the professionals with stacks of photos. sign one each for everybody else. if he sees the same people day after day, don't sign for those people. not hard to do. his handler said it all. if jeter was the white knight in shining armor, and word got back to him that his handler treated people like that, i expect jeter to rip into that guy real good for abusing his fans. we all know that isn't going to happen. Jack Dempsey would hang out at Jack Dempsey's restaurant and mingle with the people, his fans who would come for a chance to see him, sign autographs, and have a good old time. He did it for many, many years. What's wrong with Jeter?

If it gets old, why doesn't it get old for Muhammad Ali? He got mobbed as much any anybody. He talked to the fans, signed autographs forever, didn't try to run away from people, he would get up early nearly every day at his home in Michigan, and sign hundreds of those pamphlets, hundreds of them each day, to take around with him and hand out to fans who asked him for his autograph, he didn't have to do it, he wanted to.

Or how about Brooks Robinson? He has a long line at a show, and he holds up the line himself to talk to each and every person, pose for pictures, shake hands, talk to the kids, and makes sure everyone is satisfied. What's wrong with Jeter?

You can't lump these famous athlete's together and say they have a right to act like a jerk. Because people keep hearing the same names on the jerk side over and over again, Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, Frank Robinson, Jeter.

And they hear the same names on the nice as heck side, Muhammad Ali, Brooks Robinson, the late Harmon Killebrew and Kirby Puckett, Bert Blyleven, a bunch of other guys. So some appreciate the fans, some don't, why carry water for Jeter when all it would take is a little effort on his part?

No one got hounded day and night more than Michael Jackson, and people don't remember him as a jerk about signing autographs. Although it was difficult to get near him, when people did, he would sign a lot, and be polite, and be gracious. He got mobbed 100 times more than Jeter, but he liked his fans.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by travrosty

he didnt have to say it with his mouth, he says it with his actions. all he has to do is not sign for the professionals with stacks of photos. sign one each for everybody else. if he sees the same people day after day, don't sign for those people. not hard to do. his handler said it all. if jeter was the white knight in shining armor, and word got back to him that his handler treated people like that, i expect jeter to rip into that guy real good for abusing his fans. we all know that isn't going to happen. Jack Dempsey would hang out at Jack Dempsey's restaurant and mingle with the people, his fans who would come for a chance to see him, sign autographs, and have a good old time. He did it for many, many years. What's wrong with Jeter?

You completely are missing the point. We could go on for pages listing guys who are overly accommodating with their fans. If you're going to compare DJ3K to someone, at least compare him to a contemporary and not someone who was in the limelight 20 years before Jeter was born. It's 2013 my man, the days of hanging out in the bars with Jack Dempsey are gone.

I've seen Jeter 5 or 6 times. Every time I've seen him, he's signed. How many times have you seen him? Have you ever? I'm not saying he's a saint because he was cool the times I saw him, I'm saying perspective is a heck of a thing and unless you've seen a person several times over the years then you don't have the full story.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Uhhh... yes, it does.

Uhhh...no, it doesn't. Have you seen Jeter, through the entirety of his career, every single time he's been asked for an autograph? Even if you somehow had, you would have only that one aspect of his persona to judge him by.

Do you stop and give change to every guy on the corner with a sign? If not, does that make you a jerk? How about if you do 99% of the time, but the one time you didn't I happened to see it and wrote an article about it? Are you a jerk then?

I get that it doesn't take much to sign a graph, and you can compare him to Ruth or Joe Louis or whatever athlete you want from 60-70 years before Jeter played...but the fact is whether he signs autographs every day or never signs a single one, I don't think that fact alone is enough to speak to his character. Athletes are not obligated to sign autographs for anyone.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Athletes are not obligated to sign autographs for anyone.

If you mean it's not in their contracts, you're right.
But if they don't feel they should treat their fans well, then they are arrogant pricks. (If not jerks.)

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

If you mean it's not in their contracts, you're right.
But if they don't feel they should treat their fans well, then they are arrogant pricks. (If not jerks.)

"Treating their fans well" is a pretty broad umbrella. I think if Jeter decides he's going to sign on Tuesday and not Wednesday through Saturday, he's not necessarily treating his fans poorly. At least he does sign, and I don't think that just because you have MLB Network at home or whatever that you have the right to tell a player how much of their time they need to spend "giving back."

[theshleps]

This is the first spring training I am missing in 12 years. I would spend 3 weeks from a few days before report date up until the games start from 6AM-4PM getting autographs at various AZ parks- usually 2 or 3 different parks a day.
The Jeter story is very similar to Ichiro except the people in line turn into a crazy pushing mob if he stops and the polite ones are shut out.
There are alot of dealers but alot of us are obsessed collectors. I would coolect every different card of a player so if say a Corey Hart came buy I might have a binder with 6 of his cards- all different. Never to sell. The dealers would usually have bats, jersey numbers, balls etc. Often times dealers would bring small children along who would ask. It was rare that children were getting autographs for themselves. Most dealers don't get cards signed as there is no $ in cards compared to other items. Or if they do they hand the player a stack of the same card.
Also being a physician who has worked on various players and my son being a bat boy, we talked to many players and they weren't good at differentiating dealers from collectors and sometimes I would try to eduacte them on the difference if they wanted to know. Some of the dealers are very helpful in identifying some of the "scrubs" in street clothes etc. others will go out of their way not to help and be real jerks
I always felt weird getting yelled at or turned down by some marginal player who I happened to want- keeps you humble.
I decided to skip this year for alot of reasons. I miss some of the collectors who are friends- there are also some folks down there I am glad I will not see. And I am trying to limit my collection now to HOF and potential HOF (I have 70,000 signed cards and want to downsize considerably). I feel bad I will miss a chance to get Koufax as I haven't gotten him since 1966 in NYC. . Do I need my 51st Josh Hamilton card signed? (what a great guy) or do I need to get pushed and almost killed in an attempt to get Albert Pujols? It is an obsession and some of us are hoarders. I accept that in myself.
I am going through withdrawal alittle. If Ichiro was still in AZ it would be more tempting tho I hated the wait and then he would drive by and wave but once he retires he disappears to Japan. Oh well, I am sure I will survive- tho getting a guy in person leaves you alot more memories than buying him through the mail and doing it with my son for many years was a great experience neither of us will forget tho he gave it up before me. Maybe he is more mature
I was one on one with Bryce Harper at Juco (while he was in college) in 3 different situations and he didn't acknowlege me or even look up (I was within 3 feet of him) and then when he would sign he'd put a Bible verse.
WE followed guys like Ryan Braun who we got his first day at minor league camp after he just was signed by the Brewers up until last year. He always remained nice as did Prince while others especially WS winning teams- suddenly would become arrogant (like the Giants) become non signers.
Sosa was one of the worst as he was two faced. Bonds at least you new where he stood.
All of us that have been doing this could write a book of stories

[HRBAKER]

Michael,
I have a very similar story. This is the first Spring Training in over ten years that I will not be attending. I used to go with my regular golf foursome every March to Orlando/Lakeland/Kissimmee/Clearwater/Bradenton, etc. Mostly to watch games but to get autos too. Over the past several years as the crowds have grown in size on the auto end, fewer and fewer players have been stopping to sign. Granted to previous posters - many of them are jerks, not sure I've ever seen a baboon ass but many are jerks. Just as assholish have been the actions and behavior of many of the "collectors" who choose to express their immature and off color peevishness at being ignored or turned down regardless of the makeup of the crowd. Frankly, it's just not fun anymore. Many other ways I'd rather spend my non-work time.

[packs]

Spring Training is definitely a whole different animal in terms of the number of dealers walking around. I don't know why, but most of the dealers walk around with binders of cards they're trying to get signed, not baseball after baseball. They are easy to spot, and guess what? Avoid if you're a player. The dealer thing is BS to me.

I love Spring Training because it allows you to get a lot of insight into the type of person players are. There are plenty of camps where you were barely separated from them, like Dodgertown or the old Winter Haven camp for the Indians. Of the players I've been around, I'd say Miguel Cabrera, Curtis Granderson, Pudge and Jason Giambi were the best.

[BigJJ]

Circa late 1980s, I remember Rickey Henderson on crutches at spring training, seeing me and a group of other kids standing by a gate seeking autographs, and he hobbled a half block over on crutches to sign for us.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by packs

Spring Training is definitely a whole different animal in terms of the number of dealers walking around. I don't know why, but most of the dealers walk around with binders of cards they're trying to get signed, not baseball after baseball. They are easy to spot, and guess what? Avoid if you're a player. The dealer thing is BS to me.

You couldn't be more wrong. I go to ST every year and I have stacks and stacks of cards with me and I never sell a single one. I get multiples signed for the occassional trade, but also because I spend over a grand each year on the trip and would like more than 15 signatures to show for my time and money. Not to mention any "dealer" will tell you there is no money in signed cards. People want photos, baseballs, equipment to sell.

Hmmm...so if you, as a collector and avid hobbyist cannot tell the difference between a fellow collector and a dealer, maybe Jeter (or any other athlete) can't either.

[Exhibitman]

Given the ridiculous and dehumanizing nature of the autograph chase I think I'd rather just watch the game and enjoy my day then pick up a certified autographed card on Ebay.

One slight defense of DJ: in the article the person being the total flaming a-hole was actually the attendant telling the crowd the rules and insulting the crap out of them. Not necessarily even Jeter's bobo. I've been in other situations where an overzealous 'Paul Blart' security type takes the perceived power overboard. Of course, if I was Yankees management the worker in question would get a hell of a talking to and there would be significant 'or else' policies set for further fan interactions. Jeter may be free to alienate the customers but not the team's parking lot attendants.